Should coins have two grades?

one for standard grade, and one for natural toning? Surely people are paying more for toned U.S. Series coinage. Shouldn't there be a standard since we are currently going off of completed listings? Say for instance there were a picture based toned grading scale for series. The grade could be VF-30 (T/6)? Maybe a grading scale is stretching it too far. How about a toning reference?

 

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I guess it would be possible to create a scale like that. It would be difficult to make it work though, because grading is subjective already. And toning, and preferences about toning is even more subjective, IMO.

 

Interesting idea.. When I read the thread title I thought you were going to say for obverse/reverse

 

Ron Sirna proposed a system like this a few years back. Ron was the creator of the TCCS (Toned Coins Collector Society). You can read more about his toning scale in this thread.

Rainbow Toning's Effect on Price

The link to the TCCS doesn't work because the forum got a virus a few years ago and was permanently shut down. As for the idea, I think it could be somewhat useful in the MS grades. To my knowledge, only David Lawrence Rare coins uses a system similar to this at present.




To me, more important than a toning grading scale is that the Price Guides exclude prices realized by toned coins as they artificially inflate the prices for the date/mm.

 

It would be interesting to see a price guide which segregated "blast white prices realized" from "monster toned prices realized" as a side-by-side comparison of same date/mm. The drawback to this would be who decides the criteria that constitutes "monster toning". It probably wouldn't fly.

Chris

 

I think using a designator for eye appeal such as a * is fine. The issue with toning is that even though some really like it, some do not. I had a conversation with a coin dealer last year about toning, and he told me that he can easily AT a coin so that it looks like NT. TC

 

Holy crap!

Who are you?

Good to see you posting again, Lehigh.

 

I think toning basically falls into the old problem with any price guide, that being every coin is unique. Even though they may be identical grades, two coins can ALWAYS sell for different prices based upon appeal and personal tastes. We actually do have the toning issue in ancients. Hard glossy green patina has been desired and paid a premium for for at least 200 years that I have read about. I never understood it until I happened to get an excellent example of it. It really is quite beautiful and striking, with the lettering highlighted by the toning.

Anyway, my coin would sell for $100 normally, but with the toning would sell for $200 or more easily. This is the problem with price guides, in that these prices are averaged into prices. If you bought a coin for "book" that is lower than average appeal you probably overpaid, but if you buy for "book" with superlative appeal you got a screaming deal. Its just one of the nuances you gradually learn with experience. But, because its really unquantifiable and especially US toning a very personal choice, I do not think any categorization will ever work for it.

Chris

 

Also every toning is unique and more unique than coins being unique. Toning is like a snowflake, there are non alike. Although coins become unique over time, but the ones coming out of the mint are almost all identical theoretically speaking of course. You can take two ASE both graded at MS70 and they are essentially alike. You can't say the same about toning.

 

I agree, but don't tell that to those Ebay sellers that have rainbow toned ASE's.

 

Interesting thing about rainbow toning is that I see it alot on our US coins, but I can't recall it being on other country's coins in the same degree. I'm sure it does exist, but you would think that it would be more common in Europe with all the older coins there.

 

i have seen coins with double grades on it.. from anacs

 

Perhaps more people just spend their money instead of hoard it away in some dark cold closet like we Americans like to do apparently.

Also, this likely might indicate most toning in coins being sold are AT, not NT.

 

Like others have already said. There are too many variances in opinions on what is considered nice or ugly when it comes to toning. And some don't like toning, also a price guide whether printed or online will never be able to price toned coins accordingly. One coin might sell higher simply because there is a certain color on it that somebody likes.

 

Now that is something to think about.

 

:dead-horse:

Coins already have two grades -- One when you buy it and one when you try to sell it.

 

Good idea. There should be more to the grading of a coin than what one grading service gives numerically, and I have seen spectacular toning on coins that are technically average or even VF/XF.

I'd like to see a passport system where a coin certified at one service would carry over previous grades if the owner so desired. So you could have a coin with an NGC/PCGS/ANACS grade which would clue in the buyer to the universality of the excellence of a given coin.