question about OGHs (old green holders)

hello cointalk,
recently I came across an Ebay auction that was selling PCGS coins in Old Green Holders. The auction claimed that This made them obviously more valuable, which goes against the saying "buy the coin, not the slab". I wanted to know if this was true.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

nope, wouldnt buy the old green holders just because its an older slab. buy the coin not the slab. imho

cody

 

Well, I believe the caption was accurate to a point (sadly). Look at what happend to the 25th ASE's. ?

 

There is a theory that the OGH are more strictly graded and would upgrade in today's standards. The majority of the coins that would of upgraded mostly likely have already been broken out. With that said some will pay a premium for them as they are getting harder and harder to find. (I am one of them) though not a large premium. As I am working on a certain set that is strictly OGH

Now the doily holders will bring a premium sometime many times value of the coin inside.

 

Thank you very much, I appreciate your answers.

 

Go figure??

 

Yes they tend to be original coins, not dipped, and when they were holdered, the value of those coins based on the CDN were a lot less, so there was a lot less at stake between an AU58, MS60-67. Most of the big money crack-outs and resubmissions have already happened, though. As usual do your own research on sites like Heritage and Teletrade which go back over 10 years with high quality digital photos.

 

Allegedly, the OGH coins were more strictly graded than today's "market grading" standards allow.
Maybe yes, maybe no - I have no hard evidence one way or the other.
As pointed out earlier, those coins which were undergraded probably have already been broken out and regraded.

 

I have seen the older cases trade much higher than they should, just because some people assume the coins inside are ungraded, & an upgrade will be certain. Not always the case, but sometimes it can happen. Its seems like most of the old PCGS/NGC holders that truely have undergraded coins have been resubmmited for grading. There are still coins out there though in old holders that are ungraded & could be upgraded. Like stated earlier, buy the coin & not the holder. A true trained eye can tell if the coin in the slab can be upgraded if removed.

 

After more than 20 years of being picked over looking for those upgrades, most of the coins still in the old holders are either accurately graded or even overgraded and as such should NOT bring a premium just because they are in an old holder. In fact after so much checking over for so long they may even deserve a deduction because of the ever increasing chance they are overgraded.

Kind of a corollary to the question "If the coin is good, why isn't it in a slab?" If it isn't overgraded, why is it still in an old holder ?

 

Here are some hypothetical or likely cases that would not be worth cracking out and resubmitting:

A common date type $20 Liberty or Saint coin in an MS 60-63 grade holder that only stands to gain a grade or two. Grading costs too much to make that proposition worthwhile.

Any coin that would gain less than $50-$100 hypothetically if it upgraded. Since the assumption is that the coin is good or PQ for grade as it stands, to resubmit with little or any market value would make it an excercise in futility.

A coin that has the merits of a significant grade increase but with "problems" that might make it a no grade. I bought such a coin from a sharp, cynical coin dealer (which aren't?), and had to put the coin on the window sil to let in tone for a month or two so it would grade again.

The old holders are collectibles in and of themselves. In a few years they will bring even greater premiums, like all the other collectibles.

 

This is exactly what people either forget or just don't know. At one time, you could make decent money by resubmitting them and getting a higher grade...but now at the OHG coins have been searched through. What is left likely won't upgrade...at least not at nearly the same rate as they did in the past.

 

A few months ago I bought an old PCGS holdered (2nd or 3rd generation) Seated Dollar MS61 for $1800. I thought it was a great deal as CDN bid/ask was $1800/$2000 and it was an MS61. I tried selling it to a major PNG dealer who said it was way too toned to have eye appeal. So I sent it to PCGS for their "presidential review". David Hall said it was good for grade based on standard criteria. I ended up getting a little over the $1800 I paid for it and all the trouble, etc.. Moral of the story; there are a lot of "original" coins in the OHs but few upgrades that matter.

 

If a Dealer can convince you to sell them your 1st and even 2nd generation PCGS OGH's for the typical back of Grey sheet spread, I'll bet you money, marbles and chalk they will never see the daylight of their display cases.

 

So you mean they would sock them away for awhile?

 

That is where many of those are. Don't misunderstand that every piece in these 1st generation holders to be either accurately graded or under-graded. I would suggest that most, if not all of the under-graded pieces already have been re-submitted and long been assigned their appropriate grades. Never-the-less the existing OGH pieces, or what becomes available from time to time are still highly regarded and coveted by some Dealers and Collectors.

 

Lower value coins are easier to find upgrades in. I'd say about half of the OGH mercs I have that are priced around $50 or less would upgrade today.

 

You don't think some of the overgraded or slightly problematic ones might do better in a PCGS secure holder? At least it would look like they are good according to current grading standards.

 

An important point would be that many of the PCGS coins in older holders would be worth less today even if they got an upgrade. Case in point would be high many high grade morgans and also many early commemoratives. All coins don't go up. The eighties was a frenzy of sorts and my guess would be that the modern MS70's are a frenzy in that same regard.

When things are pushed to investors you better run.

Lack

 

I feel good with buying these old holders if the price matches the coin. Copper is probably not going to change color much and other coins that had a bad dip will be showing it by now. There are some still out there that will upgrade but they are being held by folks that don't care to mess with changing holders.