2009 double die obverse??

some one please tell me if this is double die or not i am new to collecting and i looked around the web for double die obverse 2009 but nothing came up is this double die

 

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Is it a doubled die? Doubling on that part of a coin is unlikely now that the Mint uses the single-squeeze hubbing process. This lighting in your photo is not the best but it looks like strike doubling to me.

 

in your best guess what do you think something like that would be worth. i understand if you dont have an acurate value, just based on your best knowledge what do you think

 

Im going to throw out a number that is completely random...... 9

 

ok well that dont sound to bad and at least i got an opinion. thats more than i had before. now i'll just wait and see if i can get another opinion

 

If it is strike doubling (and that is what it looks like based on your photos) I would say it is worth 1 cent.

 

Welcome to the forum! The mechanism of die manufacture has changed since the well known 1955/55 and 1972/72 cent. Then the working die was pressed into the hub more than once, so the chance of slight misplacement after the first hub pressing and then a second pressing, produced a doubled die which then impressed on the coin. With the advent of the single squeeze method of producing dies, most doubled dies became more subdued and in the central part of the design. That is why Hobo mentioned that doubled dies in 2009 would not normally be near an edge, but in the central area. Read more at this reference. There is no premium for this coin.

http://www.lincolncentresource.com/Featured/2009ddr.html

Jim

 

U say if it is double die its only worth face?? Y do u think that. I would think it'd have some value considering the mint has made changes recently to avoid this to me this wouldn't be a common error not for the location of doubling anyway

 

That's not what I said.

 

Ok well say it is doubling what do u think it'd b worth

 

It is strike/machine doubling damage and the "doubling" means in appearance only. If we meant it was a doubled die caused in the production of the die itself, and not during the use of the normal die to produce the coin it would be a different matter. But is not a doubled die, nor considered an error, it is considered damage to the coin, as it was caused by the machinery process. The value is realistically 1 cent.

 

o ok.. i got ya.. thanks

 

but keep it none the less i would

 

well i am going to but i am still confused is this an actual double die or not? does it have any collector value? or is it just considered damaged

 

I don't know how else to say it - NO, IT IS NOT A DOUBLED DIE. IT IS STRIKE DOUBLING.

NO.

IT IS STRIKE DOUBLING WHICH MANY COLLECTORS CONSIDER DAMAGE.

 

OK SIR THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOU EVAULATION BASED UPON YOUR OBIVIOUS EXPERTISE, BUT UNLIKE YOU I AM BRAND NEW TO THIS HOBBY AND JUST TRYING TO GET SOME EXPERTS SUCH AS YOU TO LOOK AT WHAT I THINK MAY BE SOMETHING. SO I JOINED THIS SITE IN HOPES PEOPLE WOULD NOT BELITTLE NEW COLLECTORS THAT DONT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE DIFFIRANCE BETWEEN DOUBLE DIE AND STRIKE DOUBLING. SORRY I DIDNT JUST KNOW THE TERMS YOU USED I GUESS I SHOULD LEARN MORE BEFORE I ASK QUESTIONS...
umm. wait, that is how you learn..
either way sorry for wasting your time, or sorry that you decied to waste your time on some on with such a lack of knowledge compared to a master of coin collecting such as your self. good luck to you anyway in your hobby.

 

jh, Sorry that you too offense at my answer. Your questions had already been answered multiple times and you responded that you "got it" (or something to that effect) before you asked again.

Let me try to explain what we are talking about. Doubling is not the easiest subject to understand. It can be VERY confusing to someone brand new to the hobby. It really helps to have a firm understanding of the coin-making process to understand how an error or a variety can occur. I can't explain the entire coin-making process here (but you can probably find good explanations on other threads or elsewhere on the Internet) but I will try to explain the pertinent parts.

Coin dies are made by a process called hubbing. A Master Hub is created by a process that I will not go into. Suffice it to say that the Master Hub is essentially identical to the obverse or reverse of the coin. The raised features on the coin (e.g., the devices, lettering, date, mintmark, etc.) are raised on the Master Hub and everything is in the correct orientation. A Master Die is made by pressing the Master Hub into a blank die (which has been softened - annealed). This process is called 'hubbing' and produces a Master Die where everything is in reverse - the raised features are incuse, the lettering and numerals are retrograde, etc.. The Master Hub is then stored away to protect it from damage.

The Master Die is used to make a number of Working Hubs. The Master Die is pressed into an annealed blank die where everything is reversed again (which makes a positive of the coin - just like the Master Hub). The Master Die is stored away and the Working Hubs are used to make several Working Dies which are used to strke the coins.

Up until 15 years ago the technology and equipment used by the Mint required them to use multiple hubbings to completely transfer all the details from a hub to a die or from a Master Die to a Working Hub. Between each hubbing the hub or die receiving the hubbing would have to be removed from the hubbing machine, go through another annealing process (to soften the die steel), and be placed back in the hubbing machine before receiving the next hubbing. If the hub and die were not perfectly aligned the features on the hub or die receiving the hubbing could be doubled. (Think about it this way. Say you lightly step in snow, remove your foot and then step again in the snow, over and over but deeper each time. If your shoe is not perfectly lined up each time the footprint you leave may be slightly "doubled".)

So, if a Working Die were made with some doubling on some of its features every coin struck with that die would have that doubling (because the doubling is on the die itself). These coins are known as 'doubled dies' and are highly collectible.

In 1997 the Mint started using the "single squeeze" hubbing process to make hubs and dies. They now make a die or a hub in one hubbing. That means most of the ways that doubled dies were created using the multiple squeeze process were eliminated. That is why I said (based on the date of your coin) that it is highly unlikely that the doubling on your coin would be due to a doubled die.

Your coin has strike doubling (aka, machine doubling, et al). Strike doulbing (as was explained to you earlier in another post) occurs when a coin is struck by a die but when the die rises after striking the coin it chatters or moves laterally slightly. This causes the die to hit portions of the raised elements that were just struck and shears them off a bit, leaving a shelf-like portion of the raised elements. This doubling is not a doubled die. It is considered damage by many collectors.

Don't fall into the trap of getting frustrated because you cannot understand something about coin collecting after only a few minutes. Many of us here have collected coins for decades and are still learning.

Sorry for the earlier misunderstanding and I wish you luck in your numismatic endeavors.

 

well thank you VERY MUCH for all that info. seriously. i guess in my first post i should have let every one know i know nothing about double dies other than they exsist that way people wouldnt expect me to understad when they say something an amature like me would get confused about or not know. i am sorry for the attitude, it just seemed as if you were getting an attitude yourself because maybe u thought i should have know this some what common knowledge. so thank you again. but it just looked like an eror to me so i posted it. when actually i was some what right it is an error just not the kind of errors that collectors look for. if you dont mind i have one more coin posted on here it is a 1977 s penny that looks excatly the same TO ME as the filled s version from 1979 even though i couldnt find any info on this. if you search on here for 1977 filled s penny it should pop up. you seem like you know alot about errors so, and i havent got any good info on that post yet. so if you dont mind could you maybe look at it and tell me what you think? i understand if you dont, considering my attitude last time. once again sorry for that. thank you for the time you've spent explaing this to me. i have been trying to learn this hobby for months and i can not find any one who will explain things to me. seems like they all think i should just know alot of things that i dont. so that was very kind of you. and i hope to get more answers from you in the future as i will have plenty more to come as soon as i go through my large collection, i just aquired all at once with no knowledge of any of them. **** i might have a $100,000 coin in one of these binders waiting to be found. stay in touch i need help from people like you. and please if you will check out the 1977 filled s penny. thank you again

 

For those of you that do not know there are some pretty nice doubled die coins produced after the single squeeze method was invented. two of them is the 2006 doubled die and the 2011 doubled die. these are doubled on the outer edge of the coins like the 55 and 72 doubled dies but not as strong but still nice. there are a few more years with the modern doubled die coins but these two years are my favorite ones.

 

this may seem as a dumb question to most of you but i keep saying i am new to this.
but what is the easiest way to tell what is considered a double die and the double die error that is considered as damaged like the one i have posted?