The run down on a local dealer. Need some advice here.

The guy has been dealing coins for 27 + years, but he mostly deals in raw coins. He was very nice at our last coin club meeting, but I noticed that some of his coins have been dipped. That was a major turn off. I don't believe he appreciated my box of only slabbed coins, but I guess we can equate that to a difference in opinion. Here lies the problem. He knows 100x more about nuismatics than me, and is pretty much the man around here. We live in an isolated area in Southern Maryland. Because of my recent job and the fact that I get paid based upon commission I must network to assist in maximizing profits. I will say this one time. I will never ever dip coins/doctor coins in any artificial way. I made this clear to my boss. On a different note, I had to travel to all of the other pawn shops (there are no coinstores in the area) and introduce myself. They do not deal with coins. Matter a fact they kick them out to the man I speak of. We have already started to do business with one of the shops and I do not believe it has been well received by a certain member of the community. I do not want to get off on the wrong foot with this gentleman. I do respect that he has been running things around here for 25+ years. How do I maintain a friendly cordial relationship with this guy? Even though he is the big name in town I spoke with a top name in MD and he has never even heard of him. Am I in the wrong here? How would you handle this delicate situation? TY

~Jason

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

How did you know the coins were dipped? If they were over-dipped that would be pretty easy to spot, but if the coin was properly dipped it may be very hard, if not nearly impossible to detect. Just because a coin is say blast white doesn't mean it was dipped. Also, just because the dealer has some dipped coins in his inventory doesn't necessarily mean he dips coins. Lastly, dipping, if done properly is a well excepted practice. Sure some don't like it, but it's not considered "taboo" like polishing or something to that extent.

 

Jason, be polite to "the man" and do business the way you have to do business. Win the reputation you deserve by treating those you do business with care, respect and knowledge. If "the man" gets upset or confronts you about what you're doing, respond with calmness and ease. There is absolutely nothing he can do. If he starts things about you and the business you work for, keep on looking doing what you need to do. At the end, people and potential costumers will see who is the calm, mature and knowledgeable dealers they should do business with.

BTW, I like the fact that you wouldn't dip or alter any coin. A coins beauty comes with its age and natural changes from time.
And to me, it is "Taboo" when you dip coins.

 

I guess I understand what you are saying sir. I myself do not do it. Not even a light tooth brush, or cold water. I do not deal with acetone (not saying it is horrible...) I don't know what I'm getting at here. I want to work with this guy, not against him.

 

TYVM Toned. I take good care of the coins that come and go. Use good communication with customers, excellent packing with care, provide free shipping, try to please. I am not interested in drama here.

 

Unfortunately the outcome is really based on what kind of person this guy is. Sure any collector or dealer would be upset if someone new came along and took their business or hobby away. You know the saying "walk in my shoes?" this is basically it. If you were there first and somebody else came along and took away your business you would be upset.

There is also the fact that business is business. If this is how you're going to make money you would have to go over him. Also keep in mind that if you two get into an argument about the store you're going to drag the store in as well.

I think the only real way to try to stay on his good side is to talk to him. Try to work something out that will satisfy both you and him. It won't be easy I can tell you that but to me thats the only way.

 

Would he allow you to take some of his coins on consignment? Best way to get along with somebody is to spend money with them.

 

The coin dealer you mention seems to have a monopoly in that area of MD. In my opinion your competition can improve upon the quallity of the coins that are available to the collectors in the area. I feel there is room for both of you as he offers raw coins (though dipped) and you offer slabbed coins. He may feel you are on his "turf" when it comes to buying coins. So be it. I have a 4 year old "monopoly" in my area with my repair service. If I discovered a newcommer in my area, it would be an opportunity for me to re-examine what I offer to my customers and make improvements if and/or where needed in order to continue offering the very best to my customers. He may or may not take your competition this way. If he does, I believe it is a win-win situation for everyone from the sellers to the buyers. Collectors welcome the abillity to make a choice. By being another buyer and by your offering of slabbed coins, you directly or perhaps indirectly help educate collectors as to what is a good coin vs. not so good (or just melt value). Even though he may be offering fair buying prices, he's been leading people into believing a bright white or red coin (though dipped) is more desireable to an original coin with less than desireable appearance and charging for a higher grade as a result. If he becomes upset with you, I believe it is his problem not yours and it is probably a result of his dishonesty. Hopefully, this will result in some good old fashioned friendly competition.

 

Jason,

It well may be that this gentleman, who is knowledgeable about numismatics, will indeed be upset that you are 'intruding' on his territory. But I think the thing to remember is that although the knowledge is priceless, he will most likely not share with you for a long time, if at all. You will continue to have to learn from others and from books, and seminars. I would not expect that you would think a competitor (and previously single top dog of the coin world in your area) will be giving you helpful info if that is going to lose him business.

I think that you should be cordial to him, not be to "forthcoming" on your opinions yet, as you have a lot to learn, and just go about trying to gain customers from the pawn shops, etc. It is probably going to eventually come down to whether the pawn shops want to deal with him or you, and business is business. If he is actually losing due to you, he may come back by upping his prices to the pawn dealers. But that doesn't mean you have to do that.

Take care, I wish you well, and a drama free coin selling life. Continue to use Coin Talk. We all are here for you.

 

I would also like to comment on the dipping. Like raider said. It is not always a bad thing. In fact, if done right, it's called "conservation". *wink.
Here is my thread on a Morgan conservation.
http://www.cointalk.com/t140858/

 

I think you should talk to him and be honest and upfront with your intent.

 

jason your not in the wrong , like it was said before be polite, and point out the factor he dips or processes his coins which detracts the value. and you would like to know why... and start talking to him from there.. cause he obviously has something to hide

 

Buy, read, then study Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People"

 

It's a very simple matter.
In any business, at any given time a new competitor can come along and take over.
If someone wants to do business they have only two choices:

A. Realize this and be proactive about remaining ahead.

or

B. Fool themselves into their own downfall.

That being said, don't be surprised if the established guy kicks up his game in response to the new competition.

 

I appreciate all of the advice. I guess the learning curve goes beyond the shop. The last thing I want to do is butt heads with somone with +27 years experience. I really need to sit down and speak with him. I'm actually more interested in low end "Junk Silver." I can buy at 20 face and sell at 30 face 5 minutes later. Maybe notes, some higher end stuff, and appraisals I can refer to him. When he was looking over my coins it was as if he knew more than the grader for PCGS/NGC.

 

Good plan. Learn from him and then find your niche. :smile. TC

 

I don't know Doug. I see what you are saying but doesn't dipping often result in a TPG body bag? I'm not a nuismatic expert so I am not willing to operate on a coin. I have a feeling that what you are saying is right, but I also have a feeling that his coins are dipped in order to increase profit, and that part doesn't seem right to me.

 

Dipping, like Doug pointed out, can be used to preserve coins. I commisurate with Tonedcoins since I know toned coins in the past were dipped to simply make them white, but the fact of the matter is many original coins were improperly stored and when sold at auction were already black. They were dipped, some were beyond saving, but others had the corrosion stopped and are today in slabs or otherwise protected. I guess I am saying Jason be careful and do not equate dipping with coin doctoring. The second is always wrong, the first it depends on WHY you are dipping the coin. An overdipped coin, even, was sometmies produced to stop the reaction. A lot of dippers knew what they were doing, and know they were overdipping on some coins, but had no choice due to the damage that already occurred. Do not assume an overdipped coin was damaged by the dipper, the damage very well could have been done by improper storage long before the dipper ever saw it.

Regarding the resident dealer, I would play nice but not be intimidated by him. He is a big fish in a tiny pond, you do not wish to displace him long term but be bigger than him. I would make nice, work with him when possible, if possible learn from him, but otherwise continue yoru learning curve. If it ticks him off his easy days are over, so what. Honest competition is never anything to be ashamed of, and if he is not not up for it shame on him. If he cannot distinguish the better quality examples versus run of the mill, and the value differences, then there is your competitive advantage right there. You can afford to pay more for the better coins than he, since you will be maximizing their value more than he does.

Chris

 

Thanks Chris. I just don't know enough about dipping. I know I've been told to use acetone and tongs, but I see some of these bust halves with black chunks only present around the stars, and I think "what kind of science experiment went wrong here."