Thanks for the link. The Home Safe 5 model is intriguing. Odd that it gets a UL RSC rating with only 14 gauge for the body and a 3/16" plate on the door. While researching safes I ran across the $100 (plus $7 shipping) Harbor Freight safe. Decided to order it for guns and ammo. Still researching safes for the coins.
After a lot of research and feedback from some pros, here's what I've found out. A fire chest inside a non-fire safe will offer the same protection as a fire safe. American-made safes are generally made with better design (reinforced door jambs, etc.) and stronger steel (Rockwell hardness) than Chinese- or Korean-made. At least some Gardall and Cobalt safes are the exact same Korean-made safe, but the Gardall costs more. Many gun safes are generally not very burglar-resistant. They use thin steel (usually 12 gauge). Most of their "fire-proofing" is just gypsum wallboard. Given that I have slabbed coins and silver bullion, the best bet for burglary and fire is the following: Put the slabbed coins in a First Alert 2011F fire chest. This chest is rated for CDs, DVDs, memory sticks, etc., so it should not go over 150°. Put the bullion in my current Sentry 2300. This keeps the temp under 350°. Put both chests inside a B-Rated non-fire American-made safe. I've pretty much narrowed that down to an Amsec BWB2020 or Hayman CV-20.
Another consideration that I didn't see in this thread. Insurance. The least expensive insurance I'm familiar with is with the ANA recommended company. That company has coverages tailored to different needs. You have to be an ANA member to get a policy with this company. For in-home safes they require a Class-B at a minimum.
listen the easiest thing to do is to contact your local lock smith they can advise you.. , i brought a Remington gun safe, and had it retooled with extra feature.. move ment sensor and security system.. the ave price around $800-$1000 for you basic safe. the average idiot aint going to run away with it they will crack it there.. try to find an old jewelers safe.. there best
most safe cracker go for big time heist not small shizzz, you need to assess your house and the best location to put it .. , id build a false wall or place them in a walk in closet.. but thats just me.. just find yourself something small.. and but good enough to to hold your stuff.. dont buy a sentry or fire safe.. you need something that give you a decent fire and anti theft id prefer anti-theft protection to fire.. the chances of a fire are slim.. but you want something.. mainly concern with theft protection .. mines is 1 hr rated for theft and 1 hr fire... its a revamped gunsafe..
I believe that people have misconception when it comes to security. I would assume that 90% of coin thefts would be and inside job. For this I would most certainly get a 300 pound plus Gun Safe/Vintage Safe that can be bolted down. If you have 10k coins/jewelry in the house you need to invest in a Dog #1, and motion sensing cameras (very small, cost about 40 dollars). Also make sure you have an alarm system. The Noise is the real security. No crook is going to stick around with a barking/attacking dog while an alarm is going off. Other than that the motion sensing cameras are essential. I recently moved my bullion to a bank sd box, because I didn't feel comfortable with my security settup.
I learned quite a bit shopping for my safe. One thing I was told is used if fine unless it goes through a fire. I ended up getting a TL-30 safe for a fraction of the normal cost. I had to pay the movers to get it and bring it to my house but worth it. One note your B rated safe may not get you insurance through specialty company if you are thinking about getting insurance.
I have found that a floor type safe embedded in concrete like the floor of a house with the lid recessed a few inches down to limit access to the dial and door to work well. Easily hidden and appearantly difficult to open without a combination, they are deep and can hold large bars and a slew of coins, hand guns, etc. But there are companies where I live that provide private vaults with 24/7 access. Accounts are numbered and retina scans are used to open your box. The fees are reasonable and their security is better than you can provide for yourself. Good for valuables. The junk items can go in a cardboard box.
300 lbs is not much for a safe. I watched my safe movers take 1800 pound safe and move it all over the place with ease. Any safe needs to be bolted down. I asked why I should bolt mine down. The answer was some crackhead will move it, not far but far enough to ruin your floors and cause damage. Bolt down any safe.
No, really it's not about the floors. It's about whether you're willing to give the thief or thieves leverage. On all the youtube videos I've watched of guys cracking gun safes, the first thing they do is tip them over so that they can use their weight and gravity to drive the crowbars down at the seams. Even this can take quite a while. Unless the crook works out and is very athletic, it would take a long time and get very tiresome trying to exert the same force while the safe was standing. They may not even be able to do it, depending on the quality of the safe. My Liberty has 24, 1.25" bolts, 1/8" steel with additional steel behind the door, anti-pry tabs at the bolts, and ball bearings around the lock to break drill bits. It survived their pry/torture test for an hour and they never got in. That was with it laying down and multiple people trying to break in. It is the smallest size of the second best one they make but it still weighs 730 lbs. These guys make quality safes with great fire protection and security features that I haven't seen anyone else offer. I was nieve in my younger days. But the proof is on youtube if you want to see what people can break into and how long it takes. A lot of stuff that seems like good security was never meant to be complete security for every situation. It may stop kids or family members. Maybe even a novice thief on his own. But if you're unlucky and have 2 or 3 experienced, determined guys with time and tools, trying to bust in, you better have what it takes or good insurance.
If a thief comes into your house with big pry bars and the like then he already knows there's a safe in there. And if he knows there's a safe in there he can easily bring a small cutting torch. A torch will open a hole big enough in the side or back in minutes to remove the contents, of just about any safe you can buy for your home. Point is they want what you got they'll get it. Regardless of what safe you have.
I agree with you on this one. There's probably nothing that's going to work 100% of the time against 100% of thieves. I tend to look at it in percentages. The better the quality, the higher percentage of people and situations you're going to stop. It's not all just about security either. You want to be able to protect things from fire as much as you can as well. There's some things that can't be replaced. If all I cared about was recouping money through insurance, I'd just sell stuff now. The small torch idea would work but would still take some time and would end up ruining some of what they were trying to get. That would take a lot of guts. No way to stop everybody though. A good idea to have extra insurance if you need it for a scenario like that. You can only do so much.
I'm just gonna throw this out there, but the best security I have ever had was a Safe Deposit box inside a casino (Winstar) More cameras monitoring everything from before you even get to the parking lot, and they are open 24 hours a day. I used to store cash, coins, and chips. It also made me feel like a million bucks.
Jason, was this an Indian casino, and if it is, what rights does a non-tribe member have as far as the ownership of the box contents, surrender in case of your death, etc. I am curious as I was not aware of such inthe couple in my area. Jim
Only two problems with that. Floor safes aren't fireproof. I don't want to jackhammer a hole in my basement.
To put a terminus to this quest ... I went with a Stack-On P-019-MB-C Premier Executive Safe. It has a UL-RSC burglary rating, 60-minute fire rating, is waterproof (somewhat), has live locking bolts on three sides, electronic lock and will fit well in the closet. Best of all, it was only $388 w/free shipping from Amazon (which is ridiculously cheap for an RSC safe with these features). What I learned during this quest was that no one makes the perfect safe for my situation. They're either too expensive, too heavy, too small, too big, too flimsy, or too unreliable. And almost all safes under $1,000 are made in China or Korea. I figured I'd wind up with American Security, Cobalt, Hayman or Hollon, but this one particular Stack-On safe seems to be the best overall compromise.
