Coin safes?

After searching the forum and the Web I've found no topics specifically addressing my concerns with coin storage.

Currently I have some bullion and my coins in a small bolted-down Sentry fire safe. I have two concerns about this.

1. Sentry safes are notoriously easy to break into.
2. Fire safes still allow the inside of the safe to reach 350°. According to one source, depending upon PCGS and NCG slabs being polystyrene or polypropylene (can't find info, but seems reasonable), they could melt at as low as 212°.

So I'd like to upgrade.

Here's what it seems I need:

1. A "B-Rated" safe for burglary resistance.
2. A data/media option, either for the safe itself, or a container that I can put in the safe.
3. A smaller safe that I can move up and down steps by myself (< 150#).

Here's what I've learned so far:

1. Just because a company says their safe is "B-Rated" doesn't mean it is "UL-tested B-Rated". The "UL" safes are generally labeled "RSC".
2. Data/media safes or containers do not let the temperature exceed 125°.
3. All B-Rated/data/media safes I've seen so far are beyond what I want to spend.
4. Gardall and Hollon make B-Rated safes, but not fireproof or "UL-rated" that could possibly fit the bill if I put a data storage container inside.

What kind of safes do you all use?

Can anyone add to my knowledge base?

Thanks for your help.

 

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i havent gotten my safe yet, but what i have been looking into are the ones that are fireproof ( i dont remember what the temp gets to ) and i would bolt it to the floor so it doesnt get stolen.

 

They stated they want to be able to carry it though, with ease.

I'm not an expert myself with safes but I usually go for the fireproofness of them. Any safe will give a burglar hassle but I wouldn't bother with any ratings on burglar proof (if you're going for smaller easily movable safe) because if they can just carry out the whole thing with ease, then what's the point, they'll take it with them and then have all the time in the world to break into it.

But as Kid Collector said, if you don't need it to move, bolting it down to makes it harder to burglarize. Most burglars are in and out, if they can't open the safe with ease and can't take it with them, they'll move on.

 

What I've learned is that it doesn't pay to go cheap. Look around youtube at how much protection cheap safes provide. I'm talking about large, $1k guns safes considered 'premium'. Many of them aren't so premium. But the key thing I learned is how important it is to bolt one to the floor. If you notice in most videos of people testing safes, the first thing they do is tip it over on it's back. This is so they can get leverage and have gravity working for them. If they can't tip it over, it would be almost impossible to pry open most safes.
They also always have TWO people prying. If there's only one person, it would be much more difficult and take much longer, if they could do it at all. I like the Liberty safes and have a Lincoln series. These are high end, have 1" doors, reinforced steel behind that, anti-pry tabs, 24 active 1.25" bolts. They were not able to pry one open in an hour of trying. They have ball bearings around the lock that break drill bits if they try that method.
It's also 730 lbs. This is the small one. But they start at a couple thousand dollars. Their best high end ones go up to $5700.

Thing is, trying to get a good deal on one at a retail store is pointless. They're a magnet for a criminal and they're either going to work or not. There's no in betweens. It's all about selling safes and not real security. Basically people throw their money away on cheap ones. I don't think it pays to cut corners on one of these if you're serious. You might keep a family member out but probably not two professional criminals. Based on what I've seen, I would not waste money on anything less than a Liberty or equivalent.

I agree, the temps may get too hot in a fire. I got a media cooler for mine and use additional, smaller safes inside that would not exceed 125 degrees, in the worst case scenario.

It's good to have fire safes for fire protection but they aren't going to provide the security you expect. You just have to know that going in. To have good fire protection AND real security in one package costs money. Some people don't want to know this and are satisfied being nieve about it. Just the facts.

 

Yeah, I tend to agree with this statement as well. It's all odds and percentages. Having anything is A LOT better than having nothing. The harder they have to work, the more criminals you will deter. Most do want to be in and out. Depending on the location of it and how long they think they have to work. Put yourself in a burglars shoes. You going to hang around with drills, pry bars and a metal saw for hours and still maybe have no luck? Or move on to a softer target? I mean heck, most will pass up a house that only has a barking dog.

 

A good show to watch for safe cracking is storage wars those small portable safes they find in lockers, they just drop em at the handle and it usually breaks open. Even the heavy duty ones' they open in a minute or so with a drill and hammer.

 

I'm a computer guy by trade and deal with this issue for clients when it comes to onsite data storage. Here is something that I just sent to a client, obviously change out media to coins.

Most companies rely upon an onsite fireproof or fire resistant safe/cabinet for storing backup media and documents; the issue with this is that most safes are designed solely for document storage, not data storage.

• Document safes are designed to maintain an internal temperature no greater than 177 °C (351 °F) while in a constantly heated environment in excess of 1,000 °C (1,830 °F).
• Data safes are designed to maintain an internal temperature no greater than 55 °C (131 °F) while in a constantly heated environment in excess of 1,000 °C (1,830 °F).

*These tests are based on 30 minutes exposure to the above temperatures. The longer period of time that a safe is exposed to fire, hotter the inside of the safe becomes.

If we’re looking at storing data then we should look at getting a Media Cooler in conjunction with a fire resistant cabinet. A media Cooler is a great addition to any fireproof filing cabinet. When used in conjunction with any 350°F -1hr UL rated filing cabinet or safe it is certified to 125°F making it safe for all types of computer media. The compact design is also theft resistant and fits right inside your existing fireproof filing cabinet.

*It is recommended to store backup media offsite so that in an event of a disaster the backup media is not at the same location as the business hardware, thus giving another layer of protection.

**Not all safes are water tight and can take on water from fire hoses which will damage documents or items stored inside. It is recommended to store items in dry bags or sealed plastic containers.

***The average fire burns for 20 minutes at 800 degrees F

 

The other thing you can do is to position your safe better. To me, the best position for a safe is in a closet. This way you don't need to buy a $5700 safe because they cannot get access to the sides of a bolted down $1000 safe, so you have the same advantage you describe with less money. If you really wanted to do it right, you could line the closet with concrete board so they couldn't try to get through the sides as well. Concrete board is cheap.

Btw, someone wanting protection AND easy portability, well that is an oxymoron. I never understood people having portable safes. All you did was make all of your valuables in a nice, easy to carry, first thing a burglar takes format.

Chris

 

It all depends. You don't want to spend $1000 on a safe if you only have $200 worth of coins to protect.

If your wanting to go whole-hog, go with a Gardall safe. They are expensive (around $800-$1000), but they are not easy to open to any burglar.

 

Where do shoe boxes fall on the list?

 

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I probably should expand on my situation.

The new safe would be bolted down just like the old one is.

However, large safes are out for a couple of reasons:

1. I don't have the room.
2. I don't want to pay a mover $400+ to move it (twice) when I remodel my house in the not-too-distant future.

There's a third possible reason also.

I'm debating whether to put the safe in a closet or in the attic. Not only does the house have about eight steps to get in the front door, but the attic staircase is another dozen steps.

The pros of putting it in the attic are;

1. It's MUCH easier to hide.
2. A thief won't likely look for valuables in an attic as much as in the main living area
3. They won't want to be cornered in a much less accessible area of the house for any length of time.

The cons are;

1. Fire burns up.
2. The safe would have a longer distance to fall if the floor burned through
3. I'd have to haul it up those steps.
4. I need to find out if the attic's more drastic temperature range and changes would affect the coins.
5. My stash would be harder to get to if I had to exit the house in a hurry.

I'm drawn to the B-rated safes because they have 1/2" steel plate in the door, 1/4" for the body, bigger bolts, and many have a re-locker. I'm reluctant, but willing to go to the $700 range (delivered if necessary). I'd much prefer to stay under $500. My current 1.2 cubic feet safe is plenty big enough for what I would expect to accumulate in the future, so I don't really need any bigger.

I'm more interested in burglary protection than fire. A media container inside a good burglary-resistant safe will take care of the fire part. When I'm home the safe will be protected by Smitty&Wesson .

BTW, I've watched a bunch of the YouTube videos. I especially enjoyed the one where the guy opened the safe with a potato .

 

Here in london i have come across several old usa safes and been very impressed by them, some of the better makes of modern uk safe are not as good. 1920s j tan safes are my favourite.

 

If you're worried about someone stealing them, and they are high-valued coins, invest what you would have into a safe, into a safe deposit box at a bank close to you and insure the items.

 

I do have a safe deposit box, but I don't want to keep everything there for various reasons.

 

there are many points to look at when getting a safe, most are fire proof and water proof now, but you still have to consider size, weight, if you can bolt it to the floor or not, and how much to spend, like vess1 said they got very exspensive.

 

I personally would not consider the attic. The heat will do bad things to your coins sir. I like your idea of putting it in the closet, next to a wall so there is not easy access to push it over.

 

These people make a very high quality safe from what I have been reading. I plan on having them build me one for my my new house when it gets built.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/

 

Yeah, the attic is no good. Too much temp change and the worst place to have it in a fire.

One of these might work good for you:

http://www.libertysafe.com/safe-home-safes-safes-ps-11.html

 

i just have mine in an ammo case stored in a location that isnt going to be told

 

Thanks for the link. The Home Safe 5 model looks intriguing. It's UL-RSC rated, but only has a 14 gauge body and 3/16 plate door ... odd.