Rant: Buying coins Cheap.

I've been looking for a nice seated half dollar.

The seated half is one of my favorite coins.

But it seems like even at redbook price, which is a guide that dealers use to sell at, not much exists.

When I look for something in the redbook price I find many coins that are holed, scratched, buffed, cleaned, etc.

If I want to buy a problem free coin, they sell for much more than redbook price.

I'm not wanting a carson city, I'm not wanting an error, I'm not wanting a key date, I want a simple, problem free, seated half.

Take for example this 1858 Seated Half.

It has been slabbed at VF-30, which in my book is $65.

However, which shipping, I'm paying $20 over redbook price.

Now you might think I'm a little short-sighted. But trust me, I have looked on most auction sites on the internet.

It seems like it's next to impossible to find a nice (vf-20+) seated half, without paying more than redbook for it.

 

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Red Book is just a guide, it's not a set in stone price that everyone must abide by. Pay what you're willing to pay for a coin you want, not by what this guide is telling you the coin is worth. Check HA prices on coin values with the ending selling prices and what you're seeing being paid on eBay is more of a starting point in what the demand for coins are going for. The Red Book Guide is exactly what it describes itself as, "A GUIDE BOOK OF UNITED STATES COINS".

 

Ya but the thing is....I also sell coins, and often I have problems sometimes even getting blue book prices out of coins. If I pay over red book, and say I loose my job and need to sell off some of my collection, I'm going to be loosing money on every coin.

 

It's good advice to search completed auctions to help guide you on current coin values in the market. ha.com and teletrade.com are free to join and then you are able to search their completed auction for data to help guide your purchases. You may just find that the demand for just what you are looking for is driving prices up.

 

Sounds to me like you buy like a collector and not like a dealer though. If you collect coins, you're likely going to lose money if you plan to turn around and sell them immediately or not so far into the future. If you're buying to just deal, you need to be smarter about your purchases, don't go by wanting the coin but by, what's the price I'm willing to pay to turn around and re-sell it to make profit. I say unless you have your own shop or business with coins, stick to being a collector and don't worry about what you'd do if you lost your job, you'd likely land a new job before having to sell off your collection.

 

In most cases, the good coins don't come for price guide values.

 

This sounds normal to me. Typically if you buy from a dealer and then try and resell within a short time you will almost always end up losing money.

And Leadfoot is right too, quality coins aren't going to be available for price guide values. Too many average or sub-average coin sales factored into those prices. Also if you want a more accurate view of the market don't use the Redbook which is printed just once a year (as a rule dealers DON'T use it) you need the Coin Dealers Newsletter which IS what dealers tend to use. For the most commonly traded coins it comes out weekly The older classic material comes in a rotating monthly issue if I remember correctly (It has been a LONG time since I have used a graysheet.) A subscription to the sheet is rather expensive, but if you can figure out which issue you need you can buy and download single copies for about $5. And in most cases you don't need every issue unless you are buying and selling on a daily basis. For the average collector a copy of the particular issue they need every few months would probably be just fine.

 

I "invest" in stocks; I "play" with coins. However, if I were to invest in coins, the best advice I've see is by Scott Travers...

"Buy the highest quality key date coins you can afford".

 

I will quote you what my lcs owner told me about the red book
"Use this as a checklist, the prices won't do you any good. The red book is better off used for a beginner to learn about US coins."

And when it comes to price guides, they're usually not up to date with the market prices. Even if they were printed monthly, by the time they come out the prices for those coins would have changed already.

 

The Redbook is full of great information. About the only thing in it that is of pretty much no use are the prices, except as a way to know which pieces are of greater RELATIVE value to others in the series.

 

I look at a lot of offerings of Seated Half Dollars and don't remenber the last time I saw a nice one sell for price guide money. And that is any price guide let alone the Red book.

 

Pretty much agree with everyone else. If you're collecting for fun, then you're doing the right thing. Unfortunately you can't count on making a profit. Its pretty unlikely, especially in the short term. If your goal in buying coins is to make a profitable investment in case you have financial problems in the future, you may want to spend your money elsewhere. Although, having a hobby that you could cash in in case of an emergency to keep a roof over your head might not be a bad way to have fun either, it might not be profitable. Hobbies often aren't though. Some people play golf, but unless you're good enough to go pro you'll certainly be losing money on that too

Oh, and by the way, the Redbook is a must have for any U.S. coin collector. Its great... just not as a price guide.

 

Ah, this has been bothering me...

and I think that I see part of the problem:

The prices that you are quoting, as VF are really for VF-20, go, check, I'll wait....

are you back yet?

Okay, and the coin that you mention is a VF-30, which is half way between the VF-20 and XF-40.

Therefore, there will always be a premium on the piece, since it is a 'high end' VF.

If you want easy comparisons, use the 'regular' grades.
That is, VF-20 not VF-30.
XF-40, not XF-45.
etc.

 

Yup, you can see a coin worth $18 in G8, $22 in VF20 listed but then see the value jump to $60 as EF40. It's use your best judgement when paying for the coin in VF30 condition.

It's certainly a guide. I don't think the values are totally worthless, I just tell people, they're ballpark figures to give you an idea of what the coin and grades sold for at some time or another. All coins should be treated separate I say. Two of the exact same coin (date and mint) and both graded as Good where one has a more appealing factor over the other might make the price a little bit different between the two.

 

The Red Book is a just a guide and is useful for determining mintages, relative rarity and other information. What it is not useful for is pricing, except maybe for evaluating coins for insurance coverage.
A slabbed coin will generally sell for more than a raw coin. The certification adds value and makes resale easier too.
If you want a more accurate guide to pricing, subscribe to the Grey Sheet.

 

Even then, recognize that all price guides are:

1. HISTORICAL information. By definition all are what happened in the past. Just like you cannot pick up a 1984 grey sheet and expect to buy at those prices, last week's greysheet is also historical. Yes, it will be closer to what people are buying and selling for today, but still is not today's market.

2. The point others made about good coins always selling above book is excellent. For a VF seated liberty half of a certain date, there is a wide range of coins from ugly for the grade to highly desirable. Good coins always sell high, its a beginners mistake to buy a poor coin for the grade below book and think you got a deal.

In the end OP it comes down to knowledge like most things in this hobby. I will give you an example. There are some coins of a rare civilization I collect. I have one dealer on Ebay where I buy them from $20-100 every time he posts them. There are a few others who compete with me for them. They are, however, exceedingly rare, and if I go to a coin show the same coins are priced at $200-500 a piece, if you can find any, (and the only show that I COULD find them at would be CICF, NYI, or maybe an ANA show). This bit of knowledge knowing this seller is worth a lot, and its this kind of knowledge, private stuff we learn by ourselves or with help of others, than can really help in collecting. Such a thing does not happen as much with US coins, since they are more widely collected, but you don't buy from the TV right? You know enough to stay away from certain high priced sources for coins, so its the same thing. A real expert in a US coin series will know from personal experience every single coin, and whether the greysheets are high, low, or correct for every one. A more knowledgable collector will win every time.

Chris

 

Couldn't have said it better myself Medoraman.

Learning and knowing about certain coins and their trends is not easy and only comes from experience and knowing where to look for the answers. You know what they say about knowing... right?



It's half the battle...


Sorry I couldn't help it.

 

As a lesson:

I recently had the chance to buy a 1896 S Barber quarter in G-6 (PCGS).

However, the seller wanted nearly VG money.

Now, I consider them (1896 S's) a great buy, but hey, I ain't that crazy.

The price was way over G-4, and only $50 below VG bid.

So, I told her that I'd wait until bid went up.

 

You should be able to find a dealer willing to go well below the Redbook prices for a problem free coin. Be careful about looking for just the lowest price. There are enough counterfeits in the market to consider a slabbed seated half.