Question on National Banknote value

hello all. i was recently contacted by a man that wanted to sell or otherwise unload a national banknote. he's from several hours away, but the note is on a bank that was local to this area in the early 1900's. i have very few details about the note other than a couple images and a description of the quality as "uncirculated". now, i also have a potential buyer interested in the note, but neither the owner nor the buyer are sure enough of the value of such an obscure banknote in its condition, to place any pricetags or offers on it. i'm not even going to try to venture a guess on its value. so i turn to you, O wise cointalk compadres, for assistance. can you ballpark this for me?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

In the 2009 book I have it is listed at $420 in AU50 and $575 in MS60. I do not think the note would grade MS but the book is 2 years out of date. This book is also not specific to this bank but just the series (F659). I would try looking at ebay auctions to see what these are closing at.

Good Luck, Great looking note!!!

 

A VF example of this same note was sold by Heritage for $517.00 in November 2011.

According to the Heritage listings, it was a one national bank county and the bank only issued large size notes.

 

Thanks Jim,

Looks like I was in the right ball park. It's a nice looking note that should fetch right around $500 - $550.

 

here is a good site for this type of info
http://www.webuyoldcurrency.com/largebanknotes.htm

 

Check out ebay prices as well, I know it's not the best place to buy currency by any means but it will help to figure a good price. The prices for California notes have hit an all time high, sure San Francisco still goes for cheap prices but that's only b/c there were so many printed. Other cities like Sacramento have very few and the prices are high. This is my one and only, hope the pics work. :yes:

 

i have talked to to a local collector/historian about this note, and he seems to think that the first charter for the fnb-mt sterling actually did issue small-denomination notes ($1 and $2), but that by the time this note was issued on the bank's third charter, they were only issuing denominations of $5 or $10 and up.

heritage is correct that this county only had the one national bank at the time, and it collapsed with the onset of the depression.

 

i'm getting the buyer and seller together on the phone this evening to discuss the note. my buyer is amazingly knowledgeable of these notes (and our local history as well) but he was not prepared to make an offer right away, as it's hard to determine the quality of the note with a scan.

this leads me to another question. is it acceptable to request the seller send the note down here so the buyer can inspect it? would any of you feel comfortable doing that?

 

Use that site for pricing Nationals if you want to get less than fair value. Nationals are such a specialized market that prices by type are useless. The issuing bank makes all the difference in pricing Nationals. According to that site, this note would only get you $300.00. That is almost half of what the same note in lesser grade went for last month on Heritage.

 

Private seller to private buyer that do not have any history, all depends on the two parties. Maybe the buyer can let you hold the money until the deal is done. This way the seller will not be afraid that the buyer disapears with the note. It really depends on your relationship with the two parties. If someone I really trusted vouged for someone, then maybe. As a buyer, I would prefer to see the note in hand before the deal was done. If nothing else, a promise to refund the money if there is an issue with the note that is note obvious from the pictures. It can be a tricky situation.

 

According to Freidberg there are 23 notes known from that particular bank. The price jumps are 120 in vg, 140 in f, 175 in vf, 300 in ef, 650 in ms60, and 725 in ms 63. I usually find friedberg is a little higher than the market, I would guess the note to be about a solid xf.

 

Yes, that is a 1902 3rd Charter, 3nd period or Plainback.
Looking at the bank serial number (Lower Left), you can say that at least 16,000 notes were printed prior to that one, since they printed 4 to a sheet with the same serial number.
The big bucks come from 1st/2nd charter, states before they joined the union (Regional), and mainly high charter western issues. There are exceptions!
Assuming it wasn't processed, than condition is what that note has going for it. I would say it's in the $375-$500 range...
Just becareful with pictures, they always make the notes look better than they really are.

Just my opinion, but the note looks processed. The cashier & president signatures look faded. A note in that condition should have bold signatures! I've seen Nationals with modest circulation with bolder signatures. It could be the scans, but the colors look a little weak overall as well.
It's really hard to tell, but let a pro look at it for peace of mind. Washing doesn't make it a loser, but could knock it down a grade by PCGS or PMG.
Make sure it doesn't smell of chemicals... That's usually the easiest way to detect washed notes...

 

I love the Nationals.
Nice note.

 

yes this site said 300.00 but that is if they are going to buy it
but the site also said
"we will be happy to assist you in determining the value of your national banknotes."
i said this site as they are in the same state and may know more about this town and it history .
i am not sure but it sounds like he is asking as he is the middle man in this deal and is looking out for a friend "if it was your friend you was helping would you try to get him a good price for it or make sure he pays full price ??"
last month what was the lowest item Heritage sold ???

 

Look again. He was contacted by the seller first, not the buyer. Where do his loyalties lie? It should be to get the best price for the seller.

Your comment about Heritage auctions is irrelevant. Why is the lowest item sold by Heritage important? This very same note was sold by Heritage a month ago. In my line of work a recent sale of the same item is the best comparable there is.

 

yes you are right i did go back and look
but there is so much to this i best get out of it as it would take alot of typing and i would have too many typos for any one to under stand because there is alot to think about here yes Heritage did sale one for 517 that is almost the cost of a MS 60 by the 2009 book
before i could put my two cents in this i would have to ask myself would i pay that much for something that is not even close to a MS and then how would i feel about the person asking that much for it would i go back to them again?
yes i have my thoughts on this but there are best kept to my self as i am a dealer and have to think about if i want others to come back to me and deal with me again. as i don't know what is going on here its best i get out
but thank you all for letting me try and put in my two cents

 

you are correct. i was contacted by the seller, and brought in a buyer from my town, which so happens to be the location of the issuing bank. as i have never played the role of broker or middleman in such a transaction before, i have several concerns on etiquette. yes, i would like to see my acquaintance (the buyer) get the best deal he can. but since i feel my decisions would be biased towards the buyer, i am simply stepping back from it. i have brought the two parties together, and i will let them discuss the deal without letting my interests affect the outcome.

i have offered my assistance in the transaction, in case the seller feels hesitant to conduct business directly with the buyer. other than that, i am no longer involved. i have offered to hold the note (securely, in my bank's vault) if the seller and buyer agree that a visual inspection is in order, prior to any sale. i feel that is about all i am qualified offer.

 

What kind of value did your buyer and seller come up with?

 

My Liddell and Litt book said there were 104,000 of these large notes issued. 22% were in the $20 denomination. 37% of all of the issues remained unaccounted for after the year 1935 when the bulk of them were redeemed, but the break down on each specific denomination is unknown. They placed an average value of $750 on it in AU condition, but this too was from a book published several years ago.

 

i introduced the two parties back in december and stepped back to let them have their dealings. the last i have heard was about two weeks ago when i contacted the buyer to get a progress update. he replied that he had made an offer that had not yet been either accepted or denied. he said he would let me know whatever happens, when it happened.

other than that, i've unfortunately been out of the loop on the deal. i don't know how close they are on a deal, or if the deal is still even on the table. i will be sure to report back if/when a deal is reached.