This is the first one of these I've seen. Most counterfeits I see are modeled after regular coins and sycees or are pure fantasy pieces. Such a die trial strike may exist, I don't know. But this one appears to be cast. For one thing, some of the features are a bit too irregular for it to have been struck from original dies. For example the beads and characters at the top of the Chinese language side. The most unusual part is the countermark area. It appears as though the parts on the left side are well struck, while some of the parts in the upper right are very weak. This contradicts the circular border of the countermark, which suggests the strongest pressure was applied on the right, and much lighter pressure on the left side. Also, the top center tip of the countermarked character seems to be cut off by the border of the original "strike". This contradicts the overlap of original "strike" features on top of countermarked features on the right side of the "stamp". I would also question why the edge appears to have been filed. It wouldn't mean much all by itself, but combined with the casting theory it's another clue that someone likely filed of casting seams around the edges. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hupeh-Province-Trail-Strike-7-Mace-and-2-Candareens-Extremely-Rare-/320812777969?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab1ee81f1
Well, there's no real evidence this one was actually made in China or by Chinese counterfeiters. Plenty of these are made in other places by other people.
I have seen photos of such things, but like you said Dmitry they are rare. They used to be expensive, but now would be prohibitively expensive given the prices in the Chinese market. This is the first thing that would worry me, given today's prices why would the seller, if he were smart enough to know what this is, list it on EBay and not a large auction? Given that, I wouldn't spend much time trying to prove this is real. Had this same item appeared 10 years ago on Ebay before the runup in Chinese prices, and before the flood of Chinese fakes, I may have looked at it closer. Not saying its not possible, but with todays market just much less likely. I know of one or two dealer who may be able to tell from the photo if its correct. If you like PM me and I can give you their email. Just say pretty please, thank you, and buy from them and maybe they would help. Chris Edit: nvm, got in trouble last time.
Thanks Chris, but I harbor no illusions of it being real. If I did, I would have grabbed it up at first sight. As you mentioned, the prices for these are sky high. The fact that no one has taken it for the $1,500 buy-it-now price confirms your point.
Tell me about used to have large Chinese panda and few other gold & silver coins as i saw their price peak i cashed them out, these days i won't touch from the far east because it is too expensive and after reading all the stories rather not get burned.
Everyone's suspicions are well-founded. The English side says it was made in "Hupeh Province" (Hubei). On the Chinese side, in the small circle in the very center, is the Chinese character ji (吉) which stands for Jilin Province. Also, the English side gives the denomination as "7 Mace and 2 Candareens" while the Chinese side gives the denomination as "one tael" (一两). It's clearly a fake. Gary
Thanks Gary for the help! I wish I had the discipline to teach myself Chinese, as it is I just flip through Hartill looking for a match if I have a Chinese cash I don't recognize. Chris
Thanks for that insightful analysis. I'm not familiar with Chinese characters, so I end up relying on less obvious features when looking at stuff like this.
