I recently cracked two problem-free raw Indian Head cents out of NGC holders and submitted them to PCGS. One came back AT, the other problem-free but a lower grade. I then tried again with ANACS. Both came back AT. What's going on here? I did nothing to these coins except break them out of their slabs and carefully put them in plastic flips. I wouldn't even know how to manipulate the color of a penny to begin with--and wouldn't try. Are TPGs going overboard with their suspicions of AT? Or did TPGs put problem pennies in slabs way back when?
I think you nailed it on the head scott. The TPGS are being much more catious about toning. Another case is they were put in the original slabs a while ago, before the ATing really took off. Either way, they are covering their butts.
There's never any rhyme or reason when it comes to what the TPGs decide is market acceptable and what isn't - never has been. Honestly, you should have left them alone. But as they say, hindsight is always 20/20.
Cracking a toned coin out of a legit TPG holder is a RISKY game in today's world. All of them have become extremely tight when it comes to toning. I've seen MANY coins with market acceptable (i.e. natual) toning come back bagged. You just learned a lesson.
I think it makes perfect sense to me in that the TPGS have different grading standards from one another and what might be one thing to one TPG is entirely something different to another TPG. You took a gamble and lost.
I agree that I learned a lesson, but going in it didn't occur to me that two very nice problem-free coins were going to come back body bagged. I was willing to accept the possibility of lower grades and had factored that into my gamble. What troubles me is the idea that TPGs don't really seem to have a rigorous, objective methodology when it comes to artificial toning. PCGS's use of the term "questionable" only reinforces this. I fear that they just look at a penny with a reddish tint and say "huh, that looks tampered with" and throw it on the body bag pile. What else can explain why they would do this with two coins that had been given a clean bill of health by NGC? I really do wonder whether collectors, especially penny collectors, can get a fair shake from TPGs nowadays. BTW I'm not giving up and will resubmit, and will also post photos when I get the coins back.
Why did you crack them out of their NGC holders to begin with? I think the answer is obvious. My advice is not to try to beat the system. Few of us win at this game. If I were you I would cut my losses and write it off as tuition. Lance.
It's pretty simple really, it's because that objective methodology you mention does not exist. There is no way to differentiate between NT and AT - none at all. All anybody, anywhere, can do is guess. And that's why they say questionable - because they know for a fact that it cannot be proven. What else ? Easy, they change the standards. Or, they just happened to guess that way on that particular day. May as well, they have little consistency, especially in regard to color. For whatever reasons people always seem to have a hard time believing that the TPGs every change or changed their standards. But yet evidence that they have and do change their standards is all over the place. There was even one occasion when PCGS publicly admitted they changed their standards. But yet when confronted with changing standards being the reason for something to have happened - the TPG fans refuse to believe it and come to their defense, citing all kinds of other explanations. People believe what they want to believe. No matter how many times the truth jumps up and slaps them in the face.
Thanks for that response. It's good to know some of my paranoia is justified. Just curious, you said that PCGS admitted they changed their standards. As a publicly-traded company I wonder whether that's something they would have to disclose to investors in regulatory filings.
I doubt it because PCGS is not a publicly traded company. They are just one of the many companies owned by Collector's Universe, which is a publicly traded company.
