TPG Price Guides

When referencing TPG price guides, is the price they list factor in the slab, or is it referencing the raw value of the coin?

I ask because I got a slabbed MS coin for less than $10, which is less than the slab itself, but is right in range with its price in the PCGS price guide.

So I'm confused...

-LTB

 

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I would say the current going price of the item, (the market), and what Doug said, the greysheet, are the only price guides you need to worry about.

 

It is the price in the slab (but as Doug said the value in th guide can still be way off), but if you have a common $10 raw coin and spend $20 putting it in a slab that doesn't automatically make it a $30 coin. Even in the slab it is still just a common $10 coin. You can't take the prces shown for slabbed coins in a guide subtract the cost of slabbing and get the price for the raw coin.

 

Ok, thanks for the explanation guys...that makes sense.

While we're talking slabs, particularly PCGS, what the hell is that white stuff inside the slab...is it glue to prevent the coin from moving? Some are really sloppily done. Does the glue hurt the coin's contact surface over time? On this dime that I have, there is glue all over the front rim and then on the surrounding slab; it looks really sloppy. I had to crop out the front rim because there was so much gunk. Is there anything that I can do to have PCGS clean it up?

-LTB

 

Another reason the prices of many slabbed coins being so low is that there are so many people out there that are slab happy. They send in almost anything round to be graded and slabbed. At coin shows I've seen many coins that should be used in change in a slab. Even very recent dates like the new Lincoln Cents. Not sure why but I suppose some people think if they take a valueless coin and have it slabbed it will now be worth a fortune.
And as to those prices. Note there may well be a reason for those inflated prices. If PCGS lists a coin for what it really is worth, most would not attempt to have it slabbed. But if you think a coin is worth something, you may well send it to them for grading and slabbing.
From what is out there I'd say if that is their reasoning, it is paying off.

 

Sorry to bring this old thread up, but it got the exact title I was thinking of, so I`ll just ask here, plus it is on same topic. PCGS and NGC price guides on their websites show certain values for PR65 and higher coins. Could someone explain why would a knowledgeable coin seller offer a coin for $7-11 USD while the guides prices are in the $25+ area? Slabbing the coins costs more than $7, so I just don't get it... Or maybe PCGS PF69 for under $10 is a real bargain when the price guide shows it should be $25?

In addition, unlike PCGS and NGC, ANACS website shows no price guide. Where do I find ANACS slabbed coins values? Or is it there but available only for registered members?

 

The grading fees don't necessarily cost more than $7, usually the coins being sold for less than the grading fees were part of a bulk submission. For instance, with modern coins there are people who submit a ton of coins under a bulk submission hoping for a good percent of 70's. While the coins graded MS/PF 70 will make them a profit and cover the grading fees, the coins that grade 69 and under may only be worth a few bucks.

Those sellers offer those coins for $7-$11 (and even lower) because that is the market value. Like was said earlier in this thread, the TPG price guides aren't a good representation of the fair market value. So just because the PCGS price guide says a coin is worth $25 doesn't mean it's a good buy if you can get it for $10, it's very possible the coin's fair market value is even lower.

I'm not aware of an ANACS price guide, but I don't know why you would want one. In general, TPG price guides aren't going to be too accurate. If you want the fair market price for an ANACS coin, look up completed auction prices for similar ANACS graded coins, that is going to give you by far the most accurate price.

 

I did look for completed auctions, as I always do in any case, but for certain modern coins there are just 0 results, so it is hard to say what would be a good buy, $5 or $40.

Thanks a lot for this explanation, raider34.

 

Two answers, one TPG price guides are widely known to be "optimistic, full retail" prices. Secondly, the slabbing cost is a sunk cost. Think about your 69 coin for a second. The dealer sends in a bunch hoping for 70's, and the ones that come back 69's are losers. Don't feel bad about the dealer, he made his profit for ALL coin submissions with the profits on the 70's, so him selling the 69's at the coin price he is still ahead.

Its a common mistake of people believing a slab always add value to a coin. Like Doug preaches, and has been true since TPG started, "buy the coin, not the slab".

Chris

Btw Raider34's answer was a fine answer as well.

 

What type of modern coins (and grades)? My guess is you might run into a condition rarity in the lower MS/PF grades for some modern coins, in those cases I think you could use raw MS/PF prices as a good estimate. The same condition rarity can be true for the top pop coins, but those are a lot harder to get a price estimate if no previous examples are available.

 

I always wondered how sellers could sell a graded coin for $5.99 with free shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-D-Adam...Individual&hash=item519c077dff#ht_4467wt_1165

 

Same thing. They didn't MEAN to send a coin in that would only grade 65, but it happened. They were hoping for a higher grade from the TPG.

 

I see a tons of president coins slabbed by ngc for under $10. there must a huge dealer discount on bulk like stated above.

 

Just 5,000 more times, I promise.

Edit: I guess I am not that severe. I use them for relative value, and to understand a rough approximation of desirability versus demand. A case in point was that French rooster coin we were talking about a few months ago Doug. Without some vastly different prices in the price guide, I wouldn't have know which variety is rarer. That is the data point I use most price guides for.

Do WAY too many collectors use price guides as gospel? Yeah, they do. I still do not make price guides meaningless or not useful.

Chris

 

Since I am interested in relatively cheap coins and get them from quite reputable sellers, I do not own any slabs. I am not a fan of slabbed coins and TPGs in general, but might buy a slab, just to have a sample in my collection.

Basically its all about supply and demand, if slabs guides are often irrelevant. A lot of coins get the "lower" grades like PF69, so a lot are being offered for cheap and hardly anyone wants them.

If for some reason, in a few years maybe, the 2007-D Adams Presidential Dollar NGC MS65 disappears and nobody sells it anymore, its price on eBay will definitely not stay $6, and become, more likely, $60.

 

I've found that PGCS is sometimes above FMV and sometimes below FMV, it's all a bit of guess work. I also know that guides can be easily manipulated, especially the graysheets and if a big buyer wants to get things for cheap, he'll flush the CCE with lower ask prices and over a few weeks may have to sacrifice a few but what can easily make that up when the new graysheets start picking up the downward change. Then once he's purchased about all he can use he'll start knocking up the bid price and purchase a few at higher levels but again will make up for it a month or two later when the graysheets reflect higher prices. Another great example are Civil War era coins. Numismedia/NGC and PCGS both show them at significantly lower prices than what Heritage and others are getting. Somebody's looking to make a market in these coins and is keeping the prices artificially low.
So I would say the BEST price guide to use is Heritage and B&M auction prices as well as Ebay completed listing searches. This will give you a much better feel for current pricing than any guide can.

 

late response,but I agree. I usually never would pay the price guide amount, but knowing the price guide amount helps prevent me from over paying. in some cases the price guide might be low. but not usually. with old coins there are a lot of factors in the price such as rarity,condition,variety and so on. unlike bullion where you just pay a little above spot. so I use the price guide as a tool

and a totally different subject I wonder what is the lowest price for slabbing is from NGC for dealers. because I see way to many coins graded selling for six or seven bucks. and I don't believe they are just taking a lost on every coin. just the holder cost the average joe $5.