1805 half question

Well my not so local coin dealer is closed until next tuesday so I guess we will have to wait and see, until then I have all the other ones that were in that unit to keep me buisy. For anyone who is wondering, I also found 17 nirvana,5 peace dollars,9-90% halves,21 silver quarters, 23 silver dimes,73 I.h.cents,and a lot of wheat cents. This was my best score ever as far as coins go in a storage unit. Thank you all for all your replies,and I will keep you posted on what my guy says about the half.-Dennis

 

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The coin that doesn't have a vine go through the claw is an 1806 , these have a known Overton #108 and 109 and 109a , with the date and other diagnostics not fitting an 1805 either the coin is fake or the date was changed which is unlikely , whoever made it might have used an 1806 coin to make the die .

 

Rzage,

Not only does the reverse match for an 1806 109a, but I think the obverse is a match too, except for the date of course. Notice how the missing lower curl on Liberty's forehead that I mentioned before is barely visible on the 109a Obverse. The stars seems to match also. Star 13 looks a bit troublesome, but it may have to do with the copy die not being as strong.

Mike

 

That's kinda what I thought after reading your post yesterday . Why they changed the date I can't figure out . But your explanation is the only one that fits . :thumb:

 

and if you look at the listings, those varieties relate to the 1806 half $.

 

Doug,
I have no idea, comparing silver and gold is like comparing apples to oranges. I have no buillion coins and no experience grading them, and with a specific gravity of gold being much greater than silver, the presumptions I used would be meaningless. I also have no gold buillion to test with for my own experience.

While you didn't ask this question, I am going to answer it anyway, and that is how I came up with 2/10 gram bare minimum and possible much more, maybe 4/10 gram. First I want to say I was being conservative. I came up with those numbers based on two things. The first was an interesting post Winged Liberty wrote on wear and how it realted to loss of silver. His conclusion was AU/EF coins there is near 0% loss, F/VF 3% loss G/VG 6% loss. I found this matches close to my real life experience.

Now for the second thing I did, since I have a bunch or RAW CBH (not exact, but close enough) They should come in at 13.48 grams. Most are XF/AU/UNC and they were close to to spot on with the heaviest being 13.51 and the lightes being 13.45. The lowest grades I had would be a few VF's and they came in at around 13.25 -13.30 The coin is question shows "apparent wear" that would indicate F at the very most, and even it you could argue VF, it should still be a minumum of 2/10 light.

Mike

 

1805 maybe it was a 2007+2008 mistake a couple hud. years early they didn't have same security back then maybe some one thouht that one of akind would be neat. happy tom. rkf

 

If that was the case . I doubt if it would be in such worn condition , it would have been made for some rich collector .

 

Oh boy here we go again.

Mikem, we had a long thread about this about 8 months ago or so. My takeaway from it, based on some data a dealer posted, was silver doesn't lose much weight until it passes below fine, but it loses a little then. After that it starts to lose noticable weight becomeing extremely noticable at AG.

Other than that I am staying out of another one of these arguments. I would say, to be fair Doug, a gold coin I would expect to deform and appear lower grade without metal loss sooner than the harder silver coins should, so it would be difficult to judge silver from your gold coin. The metal loss on your gold is probably similar to a XF/AU silver coin IMHO.

Bailing.....

Chris

 

Well,I got to spend some time with family over the holiday,and turns out that my sister's new boyfriend is an avid coin collector.He has been collecting for over 30 years and has several early dollars and halves in his collection.So I showed him this one,and he said "without a doubt this coin is genuine".Also he made me an offer on it.I told him that i want to hold onto it for a while and do some more research.Then he offered to take me to a dealer that he has been doing business with for a long time to have another opinion.Anyway we couldn't figure out a time that both of our schedules would allow it,so I'm holding one of his coins and he is taking mine to his guy on Monday...can't wait to see what he has to say! Thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread so far I really appreciate you all sharing your knowledge.And no matter if this coin turns out to be the real-deal or not, the education i have recieved is priceless.--Dennis

 

That's exactly what my local dealer said after I showed him one of my better Chinese fakes. I had quite a bit of difficulty trying to convince him otherwise.

 

that's why I want another opinion before I agree to sell it.

 

Dennis , they did a survey with a bunch of long time dealers and showed them a bunch of the higher quality Chinese fakes most couldn't tell the fakes were indeed fake . Since your coin is at least a very well made fake the only way to tell is to send it somewhere with the knowledge and equipment to tell , this means a repubattle tpg preferably PCGS , or NGC . Since it doesn't fit any of the die pairings for an 1805 , it is either a fake or for some reason an 1806 with the date changed . Most dealers won't be able to tell even if they say they can . I have a Trade dollar I bought raw , most everybody said it was real including a couple dealers and Trade dollar collectors . I finally took it to Tom DeLorey at Harlen Berks in Chicago , he wrote many articles on the Chinese counterfiet Trade dollars . After looking at mine he said that though no one thing could tell him it was fake , he thought it was a fake but couldn't be sure without further testing . At the very least point out that your coin has no wreath through the eagles claws and that only appears on 1806 coins and only on two die pairings . Good luck I hope it's real .

 

Thanks rzage,that is the best advice that I have gotten. It sounds like a lot for me to get into,maby I will take the offer my sisters boyfriend gave me,he knows more than I do about how to deal with this,and is willing to take the risk,so I will just wait and see what his dealer friend says. Then if he still wants it I will make a deal with him and be able to have a clear conscience. After all I am not really interested in having this perticular coin, I just want to gain some knowledge before I part with it.--Dennis

 

Hopes it works out for the best Dennis .

 

Well my new friend's coin dealer thinks that it is real so we made a deal. Im kind of glad to be rid of it because it just seemed like a lot of hassel to get it verified especially right now with my current financial situation. I hope it works out for him. Thank you for all of your replies.

 

Hope your friend enjoys his counterfeit. Not matching a known die pair for that date means its 99.99% that it's a counterfeit.

 

Yep - agree 100%.