I'm sorry to say we have an Unethical and Unprofessional CoinTalk Member....

I don't usually like to post anything negative about people on these forums, but this guy has really proven himself to be unprofessional and unethical, so I thought I'd make an exception and tell the story because I am sure I am not the only one he has behaved this way with and perhaps it will save you the trouble and grief he caused me. Even though he is quite prolific here on CoinTalk I won't mention his name on the public forum, so pm me if you are interested in further information.

Mr. H contacted me several months ago and said he wanted to buy a PF64 MPL coin off my website. We came to an agreement, so I marked the coin “sold” on my website. Then Mr. H decided he wanted larger photos of the coin and contacted my coin photographer directly. Since I was the one who paid for the photos, the photographer asked if I was ok with him sending Mr. H additional photos, and I said it was ok and chose not to say anything at that time to Mr. H about needing to contact me directly to obtain additional photos of my coins.

After Mr. H received the larger photos, he saw an imperfection in the PF64 coin and decided he no longer wanted that coin, but said he’d buy the PF65 MPL I had on my website instead. I agreed to sell him the PF65, unmarked the PF64 as no longer being sold, then marked the PF65 as sold on my website. Mr. H once again went directly to my photographer requesting larger images. I was about to tell Mr. H that he needed to go through me to make that request (even though my photographer sent the first set of additional photos at no extra charge, I didn’t want to burden him with having to do that again without paying for them), when all of a sudden Mr. H again changed his mind and cancelled the order for the higher grade coin!

Fast forward to last week. Mr. H contacted me again out of the blue and said he wanted to purchase the original PF64 MPL again. I decided to forget about the past and give him a second (well, third) chance, so we agreed on a price, and he said he’d send me a check. I received the check and deposited it into my account. I then sent Mr. H an email letting him know that I received the check and that since I knew he would be at the Baltimore show the next week, I would bring the coin to him rather than ship it since registered mail would take longer to reach him.

The next day I received an email curtly stating he was cancelling his order - nothing further, no explanation whatsoever. I sent him an email asking him to call me about what was going on but I never heard from him. Two days later, he stopped payment on the check I had deposited, still no explanation or communication.

I subsequently discovered (through his own admission on a post here on CT) that Mr. H had purchased a similar PF64 MPL a few days after he purchased mine, which is why I am guessing he cancelled our transaction and stopped payment on his check.

So, besides of course never doing business with Mr. H again, any thoughts or suggestions?

 

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Well, short of letting people know what happened and never doing business with him again, there's not much else to be done.
You did have a contract to purchase that he broke, but what are you going to do... Spend a fortune in time and money to maybe have a small claims judge agree with you? Not worth it.

The person knows who they are, and knows that you are outing them here as I am sure many others will want to know his name too...
Hopefully everyone that deals with this person will now have a healthy respect for their shenanigans, and hopefully ask for cash/cashiers check on future dealings, if dealing at all.

Thank you for outing this person.

 

I am sorry to hear about this Charmy. I find such actions of any coin collector inappropriate, let alone a member here.

Does your bank charge you for checks you deposit that have been stopped? If not, the only direct money loss is the photographer fees, though I know there is your time and the possibility of a lost sale as well.

While I understand how you can be mad, I really do commend you for not naming the member. Hopefully s/he will be willing to reimburse you for any fees you incurred for this whole fiasco, but you not publicly naming her/his name shows real class on yoru part. I for one know if I ever am in the market for an exceptional cent where to turn to.

Chris

 

Sadly, it's stories like this that make me glad I'm not a dealer. Some people are just plain inconsiderate, and think the world owes them a favor. On the bright side, if he continues treating good people (meaning honest, hardworking dealers) like this, he won't have anyone who will be willing to sell to him.

In my opinion, he should quit numismatics and take up collecting Pet Rocks.

Chris

 

Man Charmy, you've got the patience of Job. Sorry you had such a rough time with him. You don't deserve that kind of nonsense.

 

Charmy,

Selling coins or other things does have it's problems. I think you took the high road in that you were gracious enough to continue to do the deal with a coin buyer when he was obviously out of order to directly contact the photographer and not you for other pictures first.

I think you have done as much as you can do with this particular customer or type of customer. You actually went above and beyond, in offering to personally deliver the coin, which I think, in hindsight was smart of you for this case. I don't know what to offer except that sometimes sellers have to decide how to handle things with customers in the future based on previous customers actions, and weigh what effect that will have on your business.

I think that perhaps you contacting your photographer and having an agreement that if requests for additional photos come to them from an outside source, that the stock answer would be that they would have to contact you to purchase additional photos.

Hope you come to the solution you are comfortable with, and sorry you had to go through this.

 

Some people just have absolutely no consideration for anyone else, everything's about them. I'd like to see the persons user name posted publicly, but I understand why you'd withhold it. PM on its way.

 

Bummer Charmy. I'm sure it wasn't the first or the last time something like this has happened to you. You seem to have bent over backwards to accomdate him. For the record it wasn't me...I can't afford anything with the the letters MPL attached to it.

 

Sorry hearing what you had to go through dealing with this person. Shame some folks make life difficult for some of us..

By the way, you have some real beauties on your site!! First time I had a chance to view it.

 

Only saw one of those things around here lately so have a pretty good idea of who your refering to.:devil:

 

"So, besides of course never doing business with Mr. H again, any thoughts or suggestions?"

Yes, three suggestions and one thought:

1) If you incurred any fee for the check for which he stopped payment, send him a bill in that amount.
2) Invite him to tell his side of the story here.
3) Don't mark coins "sold" on your website, until payment has been received. Consider writing nothing at all or "On hold" instead, until then.

Sorry that you were treated in such an inconsiderate manner.

​

 

Well some people just don't have personal integrity, and that's sad. In my mind, a deal is a deal. Flipping and flopping? Immature to me.. While I too, would like to see the name posted here, the right thing is of course not to post it. These days, there are no guarantees I guess. Based on this post and a few others I have read, I believe if I ever choose to participate in a transaction with other members, I might consider asking for references before committing.

I am sorry for your trouble Charmy. I'm sure it's frustrating.

 

It's a good thing you didn't send it out. Doesn't sound like the type of person you'd want to rely on getting a return from.

 

Sorry this happened to you Charmy. I have no idea who this is but it will be interesting to see if we hear a response to this thread from him.

 

Thank you everyone for your support, kind remarks, and suggestions.

Mark, great advice - after this fiasco, I had already decided to put "on hold" instead of "sold" on my website until the check clears, so we are of like minds. And I definitely will send him a bill for any charges I've incurred.

I would welcome hearing his side, but I doubt he will have the guts to post a reply since I gave him the opportunity three times to discuss it with me personally, but he never bothered to respond. It's sad and frustrating that people like him taint the enjoyment I get out of being a dealer, so I hope he thinks hard before playing his games with anyone else

And I am grateful that circumstances made it so that I didn't ship the coin right away!

More lessons learned, that's for sure....

 

Just my two cents, but the guy did not actually do anything wrong. He did not try to stiff you, renegotiate after he received the coin, etc. You incurred no cost (I assume), so for me that's no harm no foul.

He certainly gave you the run around, stepped on some toes with the pictures, and was not very friendly about the cancellation, all of which is a shame. I have a couple coin dealers I do business with, and I find it really helps to keep up a friendly relationship with them, I assume the same goes for you. If you did not like doing business with this person, and I don't blame you, then certainly stop doing it. But I don't think a public shaming is appropriate as he did not do anything wrong, his crimes seem more like poor social skills rather then wrongdoing.

 

Hmmm? Maybe I should bring two bottles of wine to FUN!

Chris

 

I strongly disagree. Canceling an order and placing a stop payment on a check, without explanation/notice is "wrong". Ditto for, as you put it, giving the "run around".

Behavior/actions need not be illegal to be "wrong".

 

Pet rocks deserve better.

 

Interesting perspective. I agree he did nothing "illegal" with possibly the exception that if Charmy had put the package in the mail to him based on her receiving a check, and then cancelling the check, that would have been very bad, possibly could be proven to be deceptive. One of the problems with doing business where you receive a check is that at any time after the check is presented up to 90 days or more, it can be either withdrawn or said to be wrong and the bank will then take the money back from the seller. So, to combat that, you have to be aware of what steps you need to minimise your losses to unethical people.
As far as not costing Charmy anything, you don't know that. I don't know if the bank she banks at charges a fee to her if a check she deposited gets a stopped payment. I am under the assumption that some banks charge fees for such things. Also as far as no harm no foul, If the "buyer" recognises that a seller is putting the coin off the market because it's reserved for them, it does create an imposition and possible loss of a sale during that time. Which is why some places charge a percentage of the cost as a re-stocking fee, etc. The buyer also created a problem by going to the photographer to get more pictures, not knowing if Charmy would have to pay for those pictures or not.
As far as public shaming.....that would occur if she named the guy publicly on the forum. She chose not to. But to allow stuff like this to happen and not let others in the coin world know, would not be good for the rest of the people enjoying the hobby. She was right, IMO to call foul and let others know. Keeping this "secret" does no good for her or others dealing in coins. People selling should not have to rely solely on their own experiences to develop strategies and policies that allow them to sell ethically yet not get shafted by shifty buyers.