Is it real or is it fake?? Mintage of 50 pieces.

A grading service on the west coast took two months and still couldn't decide if it was real or not. I have since sent it to a grading service on the east coast asking their opinion. What do you think?

I have the same coin without the prova designation in AU58 and they look about the same. Color on the prova might be a little more yellow, but the legends in particular look identicle. This coin was struck for the 25th anniversary of independence. The 20 Franga coins struck the following year for the marriage of King Zog exhibit much more proof-like fields, hence would probably be easier to authenticate. Ditto the 1938 issue for the 10th anniversary of reign, which technically is actually a restrike, but in any case the coin is always proof-like.

Anyway...,, Bought this prova from Coast-to-Coast earlier this year for about $75 over melt. Not sure if it was so cheap because they missed the prova mark, or if it was because of questions regarding authenticity, ie. they too sent it in and it came back raw. They listed it as AU on their website, -I can't find any breaks in the luster, I would grade it an MS60. Still, even in AU without the prova, the coin realisticaly should have been listed for at least twice melt. Of course, if its fake, its not a great deal. If its real, its the best deal I've gotten in ages.

 

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FInally someone posting some coins from my favorite country. I think its a fake. The R is to close to the bust of Zog. and the lettering seem out of position slightly. Also Im pretty sure provas were not made for the 37 20 franga variety. Nothing in my book of albanian coins lists or mentions it.

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=244&lotNo=5071

 

Krause lists it as a prova, mintage of 50, with a valuation of $1200 in UNC, which is probably a wee bit low. Me thinks more like $2,000 minimum.

 

If its real your right. Provas are usually twice krause.
Interesting however krause has it listed and my albanian book made by the albanian governent doesnt
P.S do you own any 100 franga coins? just curious

 

Yes, I have all nine of the regular issue 100 Franga coins. All of them slabbed. The 1926-Star is AU58, the 1938 Marriage is AU55, and all the rest are MS62 to MS64. Also have the 50 Franga 1938 10th Year of Reign in MS66 (probably finest known) as well as every other gold issue from the regin of King Zog, all of them in mint state (MS62 and better).

The only exception is the 1926 Albania 20 Franga with Zog on it, which I am convinced doesn't really exist, and the Skanderbeg 20 Franga with the fasces privy mark of whch there are only 10 known (or something like that). I'm not into the regisrty set non-sense, but if I were, pretty sure I have the nicest set ever assmebled. At least in regular issue gold.

I have the silver coins too, though I'm missing a few, most notably the 1926-r Franga. Also only have the 1926 Zog 2 Franga; missing the 1927. Have both the 5 Franga and all the other silver issues up to 1939. Also have a bunch of modern stuff, though not even close to complete.

Most of these coins were purchased 10 to 15 years ago when collecting Albanian coins was a little more reasonably priced. All along I have shied away from the provas because a.) They cost too much. b.) Most of them were struck as regular issues anyway. c.) The chances of completing a set were slim, especially if you include platinum strikings.

But now that I have all the gold circulation issues, there's only a few options left if I want to continue collecting the series. Upgrade the regular issues, work on the remaining silver issues i don't have, or collect the provas. While it's real cool that I have stumbled across the recent prova, the idea of collecting the rest of them, especially the 1928 issue 100 Franga is overwhelming. I don't think I could ever afford to buy some of those unless I was willing to sell-off other parts of the collection in huge chunks to help pay for it. (yup, have nice collections of a few other countries as well, though nothing as comprehensive as Albania)

I have owned a few other provas over the years, but invariably they end-up in the collection of a friend in Switzerland who collects just the provas. I had won a 1928 Albania 2 Lek prova about 8 years ago in a Ponterio auction at a very good price, and it was sent to my pal in Bern.

One other option would be to have all the coins regraded by one company. I've got them in PCGS holders, NGC holders, and old-style ANACS holders (both the Skanderbeg coins). Would be nice to get them all in one style holder, and mayber even get the grade raised on some of them. Case in point, what planet did the grader come from who disparaged this coin with an MS64 grade? There are a few others that might move up a point in MS, in addition to the Marriage 100 Franga which has good shot AU58 using todays grading standards.

 

That is unbelievable and amazing. Can I ask are you albanian. My main interst in coins is collecting albanian coins.
My collection while unrivaled to yours is still decent.
I own 5 qindar lek, 10 qindar lek, 2 franga ari 1926, 10 and 20 franga 1927, and skenderbeg 1927 v. Recently I purchased a ms 62 100 franga coin 1927 with two stars below the bust. I payed 3300 for it. I know I overpayed but I was dying o have one for so long. If you dont mind me asking how much did you pay for your 2 franga and what condition is it? Mines is ms 64 by pcgs, and how in the world did you find all 9 varieties of the 100 franga? Finally I have found a collector I can relate to!

 

Nope, I'm not Albanian. I bought a used 1994 twin century Krause catalog in 1995 and only made it to the Albanian section before I was so enamored I couldn't get any further in the catalog. Well, not exactly, --I did in fact make it through the rest of the book-- but you get the idea. If I had to be a little more specific about my attraction, it would be the work of Guiesseppe Romagnoli that I find so irresistable. And so in addition to Albania, I also have a decent collection of Italian coins, and even Somalia since at one time (even up 1950 our pal Romagnoli was still designing coins) the coins of Somalia were also struck at the Rome mint.

If you paid $3300 for the 1927 Star-Star in MS62 then you probably got a reasonable deal provided its accurately graded. I had 8 of the 9 coins for quite some time before I finally purchased the last one I needed, the 1926 Single Star. I had seen a bunch of others in auctions that were spotted bad or had other problems. Saw one that was graded as MS62 that was pretty beat-up. Finally, I decided it was better to settle for a decent looking AU58 (from Mark Teller, $2450) than to keep looking forever. I had gotten close one time previously 6 or 7 years ago when I purchased an 1926 Single Star from Clark Smith raw for $995, then sent it to PCGS only to have it come back as "questionable authenticity" --I returned the coin to Smith for a refund. He then sent it to NGC, got it slabbed as MS62, and then offered the same coin to me for $2,000.00 Needless to say, its one of the reasons I no longer buy many coins from him.

I too, own all the minors, including multiples of most of them. the 5 and 10 qindar lek are much more common now than they were 7 or 8 years ago. Yet prices have held-up reasonably well on them in spite of the increase in supply. Ie I were to give any guidance on collecting the minors, it would be this: The 1926 coins are far more plentiful than the later years. There are a fair number of the 1927 issues too, but once you get to 1930 and 1931 they become much more scarce in mint state (circulated, plentiful), yet they carry the same price. Hence, if you see a 1930-V (struck in Vienna) or a 1931-L (struck in London) cupronickel 1 Lek slabbed as MS65 or better for the same price as a 1926 in MS65, for-sure jump on it, as its probably worth multiples of the 1926 price in my opinion though the catalogs don't really show it.

On the 1926 Albania 2 Franga, I paid $200 for it at the Chicago Internation Coin Fair in 1996. It was one of the first coins in the Albanian collection. Like yours, MS64. Another coin with a solid shot at a higher grade. I think it would CAC in a 66 holder, but then I'm the owner so I'm a little biased.

 

Inclined to agree with you on grading from large coin dealers in general, though I must say, the few coins I have bought from their display ads have been much nicer than most of the other large dealers. Certainly nicer than Paul Simms, or the very worst of them all, Mount Vernon. In the case of the Albanian piece, obviously wasn't a display ad since its pretty much a one of a kind coin in terms of dealer inventory. It was listed in their "World Gold Coin" section on their website, and it was one of the few that didn't have a photo so I really had no idea what I was getting into. With the expectation that I could return it if it was whizzed or harshly cleaned, I figured i didn't have much to lose at the $425 price they had it listed at (I think gold was just under $1500 at the time) so I went ahead and bought it online. I kind of expected an email a day later saying it had already been sold. When I got the coin in the mail a few weeks later, I threw a loup up to it and you can imagine my surprise to see those wonderful little letters P-R-O-V-A(!)

What makes the deal even more unusual, Coast-to-Coast does have some good deals occassionally on US gold; --for instance an 1916-s Half Eagle in NGC58 I got for $475 when the common dates were selling for $425-- but generally speaking the great deals are not to be found in their world gold section. Most of the coins in it are priced full-pop, and my only reason for looking at the coins at the time was to see something new and different; -eBay having become so predictable and redundant the past few years in terms of inventory.

 

Here's the1927-Star/Star 100 Franga, same grade as the one you recently acquired. I sent this one in to NGC myself back in 1998 or 1999.

 

I will take a stab at it. I think your coin is a commemorative of the national hero Skanderberg. JK


What does "PROVA" mean?

 

Actually a commemorative struck to mark the 25th anniversary of independence from the Ottoman Empire. Prova is the same as a trial strike in this case, though some provas were also patterns that never were produced as regular issue coinage. This one was issued, so its technically a trial strike not a pattern.

 

Well, got my prova back from NGC. The good news; --it's real. The bad news; -they claim it's an AU58. Was really hoping for an MS60 or MS61. Meanwhile, what do you think of these photos? Taken using a macro ring light that connects to the end of the lens. Pretty slick little toy, has about 50 LEDs in it, and while its a challenge with proofs the photos of other coins are pretty nice(!) Not bad for $34. Photo was taken with the LEDs on the left half of the light turned off.

 

So, they do exist then, other collectors of Albanian coins

I collect Albanian coins and am slowly building up an interesting collection, although it goes veeeery slowy as I do not wish to buy from expensive auction houses and unfortunately quite a few coins (such as the golden provas) only circulate around there.

Some of my coins from the Zogist era are,

several 100 Franga Ari: e.g. 1926 2 stars, no star, 1927 no star
20 Franga Ari 1926, 1927 Skanderbeg
20 Franga Ari 1937 Independence
20 Franga Ari 1927 Amet Zogu
10 Franga Ari Amet Zogu
Several 5 Franga Ari: 1926 star and no star
Several 2 Franga Ari 1926
1 Frang Ari 1927
2 Franga Ari 1928 Prova
2 Lekë 1928 Prova
2 Franga Ari 1935 Prova
0,5 Leku 1930 Prova

Some were really good deals. For instance 100 USD for the 0,5 Leku 1930 Prova and a 100 Franga 1926 2 stars for 500 EUR (even then when the gold price was lower this was a really good deal).

Also have a strange one from the Zogist era: a 5 Qindar 1926. Good strike and clearly genuine, but the signature (Romagnoli etc.) is missing. Doesn't seem to be removed or so. Seems to be a misstrike.

But I also collect the modern ones. I especially like the 100 Lekë 1988 Hekurudhë, the 50 Lekë 1988 Hekurudhë Piedfort and the 200 Lekë 2001 Statue of David.

Sadly enough I haven't seen much new coins coming out of Albania for years now.

 

Nice collection you have. I don't have the 1927 Albania Franga, otherwise have all the others that were struck for circulation. Hence no prova only issues like the 1928 Albania 2 Lek though I did win one once at auction an resold it. The Zog era gold collection is complete, --all of them-- with the exception of the fasces privy marked 20 Franga of which there are something like 10 known. I do believe there is an error in the Krause catalog however. They list a 1926 issue of the 20 Franga with Zog on it (not the common Skanderbeg issue) with a catalog value essentially identicle to the 1927 issue. I've never seen one in 20+ years and I am conviced the coin doesn't exist. Even the fasces privy mark coin shows-up at auction once a decade, yet this seemly common gold coin (according to Krause) is never, ever offered. If they were minted, I wonder if they were melted down.

On the 100 Franga coins, far and away the most difficult to find in nice condition would be the 1926-Single Star. The easiest to find in nice condition would be the 1927 No Star. The commemorative 100 Frangas are expensive in any condtion, but all of them show-up in UNC occassionally. The nicest 1926-Single Star that I have seen graded something like MS62 from the looks of it. Was offered in an auction in Europe a few years ago. Nearly every other one I have seen has had problems, either rim bumps, or much more typically with nasty copper spoting or hairlines. Mine is an AU58. My 1938 Marriage 100 Franga is an AU55. All the rest are mint state. I have the 50 Franga in MS66, probably the finest known. 10 Franga in MS65 along with several of the commemorative 20 Frangas in MS65.... All the others are between MS62 and MS64.

 

The photos don't turn out nearly as well with all the LEDs on, the image loses depth of field and looks flat and lifeless. On the silver coins, I agree, it is difficult to photograph them no matter what the lighting conditions are. This is especially true of extremely lusterous silver coins. I have yet to figure out how to capture a good image of a silver coin with cart-wheel luster. On coins with muted or satin like luster, the LED light works pretty well, again, if only half the LEDs are utilized.

 

Depends on the camera too. I once had a Nion CoolPix 880 which was an expensive early generation digital camera. Worked fabulous with day light provided it was direct from the sky without any tree branches or other interfence like window screens.

 

I can imagine you don't have the 5 Franga 1927 prova. I mean, who has? :smile I bet there are a lot of people though believing they do. There are plenty of replicas around that are often sold as if they were the real coin.

I don't have all the gold from Zog yet. Especially commemorative Frangas are failing. But I also collect another country. So, as said. it goes very slowly. But I will some day. Minus 1 or 2 coins like the 20 Franga fasces which is nearly impossible to get. Just like the platinum 20 Franga 1926 Skanderbeg.

I am not so sure the 20 franga 1926 Amet Zogu does not exist, as I have seen one once, on Ebay. Years ago. I then thought this very strange and did not dare to bid on it. Found it suspect. Later I regretted that. Based on that experience I believe it exists but I am not certain as I have never seen one again anywhere.

I have few graded slabbed coins. I am from Europe and overhere we are rather reluctant to slab coins. We do the grading ourselves so to speak.