Greetings, On my profile page listed under "Albums" I have some pics of Chinese Imperial coinage. Now before anyone starts on me about attribution, let's just say that I'm a novice in regards to Chinese cash. This is my best attempt at verifying the authenticity and at the attribution of these coins. So let's not :dead-horse:, Otay? He He But that is not to say...that I wouldn't mind some correction, authenticity verification, kudos, or cash donations ($US, please no Euros). Thank you, Joe
That bright green color and some other features is something you often see one modern coins aged in a huge oven. Look up articles on Chinese counterfeit cash coins, they show pictures of the process and product. By any chance, did most of these come from the same source?
No. Some of them were purchased during the Vietnam era by a cash collector living in Thailand in turn he gave them to me in the '70's. The others were purchased from Chinese cash coinage dealers throught SO Cal over the past 10 years and a dealer in New Zealand. This is an 1/8 of what there is in the collection. They all come from reputable sources, but as a former investigator I'm always skeptical. Do you have a link to the aging process site?
Hmmm...interesting stuff. I checked the list of good dealers and some of what is up on my albums page was purchased from those sellers. Ex: Calgary Coins, Joel, Coinsxzh, etc. Who knows?
Yea It's difficult to tell these days. I'm no expert, but I've seen a lot of fakes, and that was the impression I got from most of the coins on the first page and the top half of the second page. Actually after double checking, I can't tell if they are fake at all. So most likely the dealers you got them from know a lot better. Here is a good resource: http://fakecash.blogspot.com/
I do not see any evidence these are fakes. It is very much harder with cast coins, but these look about as good as I can tell from photos. The green color is common on these before they get cleaned up well, and looks natural. The bad news is forgeries of these are getting so bad many dealers of CHinese coins are quitting either out of fear of forgeries, or prices going up due to CHinese demand, or both. I do not buy much CHinese material anymore unless i know its coming from old collections. Jlblonde, if you have more than a passing interest in these I would highly recommend buying Hartill's Cast Chinese Coinage book. Probably the best English reference ever published, and pretty cheap. I believe Frank Robinson sells copies for about $45. Gorny's Song reference is also helpful, but harder to find. Chris P.S. Also, if anyone does want to buy CHinese, I have a link I can share of good EBay sellers of authentic coins. About 98% of them there are forgeries, so I really do not look at any others besides this list.
I asked a top Ancient Chinese cash coinage dealer to check these for me. Here's what he had to say: Go easy on his English. :yes: "Hi, I looked you offer web link..i think all is real coins. First reason, that web coins all is normal coins. without rare coins.usually fake producer do not made common coins.because made one look great fake coin will spend more money and time..if they have this power. spend same time and money.why not made 100~1000USD fake coins? Second..that web coins all look with real rust and real used wear..not look fake rust and artificial used wear.. Third,these coins typeface look cast normal.not strange font. thanks zhou"
It should be noted that counterfeiters DO make copies of common coins as well. This is very well documented.
But not as commonly. I stand behind my opinion that these are authentic, and I agree with all of Zhou's points. Common northern Sung or Ching coins faked are usually tourist fakes and easily spotted. I have some, and can spot them in a second or two. David Jen in his book had a good writeup of the "feel" or "soul" of a coin, and when I was a beginner it sounded like hogwash. Reading it again and its an excellent point. THe authentic examples were perfectly balanced, and "live" in their calligraphy. Most forgeries, especially cheap ones which fakes of these would need to be, just do not have that perfection. These words on coins were not treated like we treat words, they were also miniature pieces of art, and their prefect rendition were required. Most forgers, especially cheap ones, do not get this feel right. It really is hard to understand unless you have been around these much more. Hopefully some of our other cash collectors here can input their views. Chris
Thank you Numismat and Chris. Your views and comments have really been helpful. I feel better about my collection and am now on high alert for fakes and those sellers who deal in them.
Medoraman pretty much said everything that needs to be said on these. My initial post probably highlights the general suspicion of all Asian coins in response to the flood of forgeries. It is very true that the forgeries of common coins are usually pretty obvious novelty class pieces, whereas the ones of better coins are more elaborate and convincing. My personal experience with coins is heavy in the 1700 to present range, so I have not seen many of these coins in hand.
Btw, just curious, was "Zhou" Keith Zhou? He is one of the good sellers on Ebay, in fact I got him added to the list I referred to. Chris
Wait.. His email says Steven Chow, but his email to me was signed "Zhou." I emailed him from the list you gave me. Hmmm...strange. I suppose that is him.
He is a good dealer, only handling real coins. While a nice man, I have never seen him handle rare coins, more along the lines of common issues. If you ever have a rare coin, I have other dealers who have more experience with rare cash. Keith is an excellent seller to build up large quantities of coins. I have gotten some tremendous large lots from him. Chris
