PCGS vs. NGC for grading ultra modern coins (1965 and beyond)

Hi all,

I would love to hear peoples thoughts regarding the grading of ultra-modern (particularly U.S. ones) coins via PCGS and NGC. This isn't to dis either one or bring up personal issues someone may have with either of them, but rather to find out what the CT community thinks about what grades they give out for these coins, assuming the coin could have been sent to either....

i.e.,
Which tends to have more conservative grading, and by how much?
How much more value does the same grade on a coin from PCGS vs NCG really have (say take a couple of examples, if you want 1) a modern States Quarter graded 67 by both, 2) a 1982 No P dime graded 65 by both, and a 3) 1995 DDO graded 67 by both.
Do you feel in the long run any one company that has an advantage in realized prices (which I'm assuming to be PCGS at this time) will hold for the future?

And of course any other questions you might feel pertinent to answer on this.

I am looking forward to a huge learning experience from CT members.

 

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For modern coins PCGS is the way to go for higher prices. This is not a opinion but a fact. I watch lots and lots of auctions other than EBAY and this holds true 95% of the time. I am not saying that there are not great coins in NGC holders and I buy some myself, I can usually make money by cracking them out and sending them to PCGS. It still comes down to buy the coin not the slab. As far as toned coins I will not use NGC. In the last six months I sent over 2 dozens coins that were in NGC artificially toned slabs to PCGS that PCGS gave a grade to and said natural toning. I started buying NGC artificially toned coins and cracking them out and sending them to PCGS with some great results.

 

I totally agree. The collector market seems to have more trust in PCGS coins, as far as prices are concerned.

I have a feeling this may have to do with the bad publicity NGC has been getting in online chatter lately. Seems that they are not 100% objective, and big dealers who have a close relationship with the company often get preferential service as far as grading and slabbing of coins with issues.
Also seen a few threads where people are posting coins that are clearly mis-attributed by NGC. Most of these are Chinese coins, so definitely use PCGS for those.
Have not heard much about similar issues with PCGS or even ANACS.

 

I usually see that for the same grade between the two, pcgs is always (or majority of the time) the higher priced coin.. The one thing I wish ngc WOULD do is price their star and plus designations.. they are subscription based access but only offer census numbers.. I never know how to price a item I might want to purchase...

 

PCGS coins fetch higher prices. But I've bought some pretty shabby looking quarters graded MS67 in PCGS slabs (I've learned not to buy from auctions with stock photos). In my opinion, the NGC MS67's have been more consistent and I could get them regraded by PCGS if it weren't for the cost. So I figure I'll keep accumulating the cheaper NGC coins and look into regrading in the future if it makes sense financially at some point.

 

I like this comment, most of my online buys have been ngc also.. I do have some pcgs coins bought in person where I felt the grade was correct for what I was paying...

 

As to Lincoln cents only , as that is where I have most comparison, NGC consistently grades 1995 DDO and 1960-D/D DDO cents 1 grade higher when compared to PCGS. So I expect a NGC MS-65 and a PCGS MS-64 in those 2 series to be equal in quality and price. This is also my view on other lincolns both modern and classic, but I don't have enough comparisons to say with more convictions.

Jim

 

I am happy lots of people are responding, as I have so much to learn. I did purchase off eBay some mid to high grade PCGS slabbed state/nat'l park quarters so I could actually see exactly which coins were being graded what on those. Have MS-64 thru 68 on those, I believe. Also have a NGC graded 1995 DDO cent (MS-67) and a NGC graded 1982 No P (MS-65). Sometimes the best way to learn these things (hope I'm right) is to actually see and be able to examine the actual coin in it's slab to try to figure out which things are on the coin and where did it grade.

Others please feel free to keep chiming in, as I really want to learn and have confidence in which TPG I use for which coins, and why.

I have a good Ultra-Modern US set going on most denominations, and am happy with that. It allows me to complete a set/sets as well as keeping the cost down, and allowing me to be hands on in the process. Because of that, I am trying to figure out which coins (if any, basically) I should send to be slabbed. I know it's not a huge market, but lots of people do like the moderns.

 

Sending modern coins in for grading is a waste of money in my opinion. It's almost like a woman asking if a particular garment makes her caboose look big. Of course the grading service is going to say something nice, they don't want anyone upset, right? And the answer you almost always get is a foregone conclusion, MS69 or MS70, with there being absolutley nothing consistent to differentiate between the two beyond price gouging in the aftermarket on the later.

 

I'm not much of a coin collector, so I can't speak for most modern coins. I heard a lot of chatter about PCGS changing their grading standards for the 2010 5 oz ATBs. There seems to be three or four different grading standards: how are they grading?, high grades (when the bulk of AP grading was done), and low grades (where people cherry picked ATBs to be graded based on the graded coins they had received and the new coin was graded much lower than expected).

 

Dude, thanks for saving me the typing....I agree 100%.

 

That's a great way to learn. Do you have any coin shops near you? I enjoying hanging out at my fav shop, shooting the breeze and looking at Lincolns (raw and slabbed) for a couple hours. It's a lot cheaper than buying "learning slabs". LOL

One of my favorite shop attractions is body bag slabs. The owner and I discuss these all the time, he always has a whole box of stuff that wouldn't grade. If there's good $$$ to be made, he will crack and cross-submit to PCGS/NGC to see what comes back. A good test for me is his raw Lincolns he's thinking about submitting, he always asks my grade opinions.....he has an amazing memory cause months later he'll tell me how I did. He's a sharp, sharp guy, he quit his job as an aerospace engineer to open a coin shop.....pretty crazy, huh? Anyhow, if you have a good shop with a friendly owner nearby, it's THE PLACE to learn.

 

Badthad: You are lucky to have a friendly coin shop nearby, where the owner is someone that is truly passionate about coins.
All the shops around here are full of guys that basically act friendly just to try and sell you something at top dollar. Had one local guy that was cool and very much old-school, but he unfortunately passed away a couple years back.

PS: Noticed that Verdicare thing in your signature. I never realized that a small bottle of acetone would cost that much. LoL!

 

Why is that Doug? I would like to read what you have to say. I agree and disagree with the members, just don't want to put in my 2 cents in there.

 

Your comment is true for ASE and AGE. You obviously don't collect ANY modern coins or know anything about the market outside of bullion.

I won't regurgitate it all here (again, for the 2nd or 3rd time). BUT, there are almost NO Business strike modern coins graded MS69, and literally a handful graded MS70. ALL of the MS70 graded coins are Satin Finish coins from 2005-2010. The Business Strike moderns in MS69 are most commonly the Lincoln Cent or the Roosevelt Dime, and rarely any other coin. It drives me crazy the misconception that every modern coin is available by the millions in MS69 and MS70 condition. IT simply is not true.

As for grading by NGC versus PCGS, I have many many from both companies. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they get it wrong. Both companies have their days. Again, as I have said many time before -- the driving force behind why the PCGS coins demand a premium in the market is primarily due to the fact that the PCGS Registry Set does not allow NGC graded coins. Thus, PCGS self-promotes their coins for anyone interested in building a Registry Set. On the flip side, NGC customer service is almost assuredly better than PCGS -- though both services have massive back logs and bottlenecks for grading right now.

 

Great post, though me coming from the 90's would argue that an undergrade by either service nowadays is VERY rare, like 1000-1 versus overgrades given today from what I see.

Other than that I agree, but it seems with the epeen contests so many plastic buyers seem to be in for "highest graded collection" both services are encouraging plastic buyers over coin buyers.

 

Maybe you should enlighten us on what topic are acceptable to you on this forum. I thought all topics about coins are great topic to discuss on the forum as knowledge is very important especially to the newer collectors.

 

Also, if you happen to be more of a slab buyer than a coin buyer, you would have to agree NGC at least puts a little thought into the front label for the slab. PCGS slabs are so booooring and clinical-looking. Yawn.