1909s VDB Cent Found - Another FAKE?

As you have probably seen in another post, yesterday I found a 1916D Mercury dime that certainly appears to be a cast FAKE! Well, I finished going through this stash of old wheats and came across a 1909s VDB! Big surprise, I believe I have found the second most counterfeited coin (I assume). This one also looks like it might be cast to me. Again, these are extremely close pictures and in your hand to the naked eye it looks pretty convincing! I did weight it though and it's a bit heavy at 3.4 - 3.5 grams.

What do you think?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I'm sorry, but that coin looks pretty funky to me. The bust and the mintmark stuck me as odd. what's the size and mass?

 

Yeah, I don't have much doubt that it's fake. As I said in the first post it is also a bit heavy at 3.4 - 3.5grams. The dia. appears to be right on but it does seem a tad on the thick side but comparable to some thicker cents...

 

Ah, yeesh, that's a bit heavy. Is there a crack running along the middle of the rim? That usually indicates a cast coin.

 

This one also looks like it is cast. The mintmark looks wrong.It should have parallel seriffs.....and on your coin they are slanted. Can you take closeup of the reverse V.D.B. I can't find my link to show you what a 1909 S mint mark is supposed to look like, but hopefully someone will post the pics.

 

I looks cast to me. That "S" is just bad. For the specifics, see http://www.cointalk.com/t78043/

 

I can go even closer with my crop but maybe this is enough? Hard for me to tell because my screen is 1080p res and I'm always afraid of going too big for most peoples screens...

 

Yea again I'm 99.999999 sure this is a cast fake. RLM posted the link I was looking for above. The center bar of the B should be slanted downward and yours looks almost level, plus the periods are almost non existent. Just overall appearance looks weak , grainy and I think I see small raised bumps all over the reverse pics.

 

I agree Big, thx for the input. The other issue is it's weight, I've never seen a copper, even in perfect unworn condition weight in at 3.5g! I suppose it will make a good filler in my set lol. I've been way more into silver and doubt I'll be buying a real one anytime soon...

 

Definitely cast, but a decent cast. The patina always gives these cast-coins away.

-Brian

 

Agreed, cast fake. Plus the MintMark is wrong.

 

This is a very recent (like 2008-2011) Chinese fake. Seems abused to make it look much older.

Here is another one, looks familiar?

 

looks like the same coin..

 

Yea both the OPs coins, this one and This one look like they were made the same. Hopefully not by the OP :devil:

 

OP on other thread gave provenance: "Well the short story is there was an old friend of the family that horded some wheat pennies over the years. I have acquired them (about 6000) and searched through about half of them so far. There are some from 1909 to 1958 and everything between including a bunch of steels from 1943. I have also found 5 Indian heads so far, a 1914s cent and 5 mercury dimes mixed in with them. This was one of the mercury dimes.

So, really I have no idea where it came from originally or how long ago he had acquired it. Could have been 30 years ago or 3 years ago..."


True, if over the years was in group of coins hoarded, who knows how long ago someone acquired it, but how does a fairly recent cast copy get into same hoard, since presumably someone hoarding wheaties at least looks at the dates. Can't always expect them to look at details, but dates and mintmarks is common for people to look at and wonder if they have a valuable coin. From the looks of the penny, if a recent chinese counterfeit, strange that it should be in with 6000 "hoarded" wheats that also incl a cast 1916-D dime. IMO.

What's up?

 

I don't have much history with coin collecting so I don't know anything about the history of counterfeit coins. Would you guys say that this coin (or both coins) are fairly new fakes? Or were fakes being made for a long time already? Also, what are the signs that it is a Chinese fake as apposed to any other fakes? I'm not sure how much of a 'collector' this guy was because as far as I know he doesn't have any Whitman folders/sets that he was working on. I asked his son about it because that is why I got into cents, have a 3 full sets of folders, one for myself and one for each of my nephews. I normally get a couple boxes a week from the bank to roll hunt and fill in the sets. I'll post a pictures of the 'collection' later, going to eat and watch a movie with my wife now!

And it's a little obnoxious if you two are suggesting that I am making "Chinese" counterfeit coins myself. I don't think I would be online posting macro pictures of them saying I think they are fake and looking for input if I were making them myself, I would probably just be selling them on ebay! I guess they wouldn't be "Chinese" then anyway lol. I also don't have a foundry in our apartment! I'll try to talk to his son and see if he knows any more details or if they have found any other 'collections' in his stuff but it didn't sound like he was some serious coin collector.

 

Ha, you're right - unless you're chinese and in china and you made them, then they can't be chinese counterfeits, can they? Unless you purchased them and they were. And if you didn't make them (which I did not say you did) then what's the worry? Being able to tell counterfeit coins is a skill that takes a long time with a huge background in the knowing the real coins to be able to do. I have very little experience, but am trying.

But assuming they are chinese counterfeits, then it makes sense IMO to ask what's up when a story goes about finding rare coins that turn out to be fake doesn't gel with what should most likely happen with that story.

Anyhow, I'm not accusing you of faking the coins. Comprende? I just questioned the compatibility of finding those coins in a quote unquote normal hoard. That's all. Questioning things shouldn't automatically beget accusations of fraud.

 

It's 100% fake, I've seen this exact fake many times over.

 

Since sarcasm and dry jokes don't go over real well in the written word, I put a little emoticon to relay that I was stirring the pot/ joking. I am not accusing you of anything, but in the past people have been on here asking lots of questions about how to tell if coins were fake, seeming to have several different coins and all seem to have some back story. Whether they were trying to test us, test their ability to fake coins, getting kicks or genuinely trying to learn. The idea that someone who was making fake coins would anonymously ask questions to try and hone their craft has come up several times on this forum and I was making light of that. You can take it however you want.

 

Ah, makes a little more sense then I guess. Like I said, I'm not aware of the history with these issues. At first I was surprised to find out just how prevalent these fakes are but then again it makes sense too...especially when it comes to the Chinese. They tend to end up counterfeiting anything worth value! I had thought I got a real good deal on a couple Canon batteries for my 5D Mark II that were normally close to $100/ea. Turns out they perform like crap and with a little research, they are cheap (yet overpriced) Chinese ripoffs! They look almost identical and even come in a Canon box! Ridiculous but it's the way it is I guess.

BadThad, thanks for the input. Since you have seen this "exact" fake many times, do you have any info/background on it? Do you indeed think it is Chinese? And do you have any idea how old these fakes might be? I'm very curious as to whether these must have been acquired recently or if he might have actually got them many years ago?