1985D double die

Educating yourself about the differences between collectible types of doubling (doubled dies) and other non-collectible types of doubling (machine doubling, die deterioration doubling etc.) will help you determine what you have. A lot of the members here have collected coins for decades are respected for their knowledge and input. Arguing about a coin where you haven't even provided a decent pic, is useless.

Post good, clear pics and you will get a definitive answer.

Here's a good reference site:

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/OtherFormsOfDoubling.htm

 

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Talking to the wind

Sometimes I just loooooove talking to the wind (not), but here goes:

I am not an expert on coin errors, but I am learning --- after about 4 or so years of looking at coins for errors and also for separating the common "non-errors" which are generally either machine (or shelf) doubling, die deterioration, or plating scraping issues and have nothing to do with the true doubled-die which is a hub-doubled event and is an error, as the mint has no desire to make doubled-die coins. The only thing the double "non-errors" and the doubled have in common is that they are abberations. One is collectible and one is NOT.

I would bet dollars to donuts that your experts that have actually looked at the coin have labled it as double (the non-error kind) and not doubled. I would also bet the same that the three expert graders you refer to are the same that work for the (I am assuming) basement grading company you probably paid 20.00 to to grade the coin. I base this on the website I looked at for the Grading Company you referred to, since they state they have three expert graders look at the coin before assigning a grade to it.

But then you contradict yourself by saying that these three expert graders (working for a "unknown" grading company with no credentials) are "expert graders who know the difference between die doubling and machine doubling" and then saying that "every double die is machine doubling regardless, but people choose to put value on the coins they believe has value to it". Can't work both ways, is a physical and philosophical impossibility as it is pure contradiction. Unless you live in an alternate universe. Yeah, that's the ticket :rollling:

You can believe that you have a genuine double die 'til the cows come home, yet that still doesn't make it a doubled-die coin. You have so many experts that would chime in on this board to you and willingly tell you you have a valuable coin if it were true, with no thought for compensation, but you choose to denigrate their kindnesses by dismissing them (and all at Coin Talk) out of hand because you choose to believe what you believed prior to coming on this with your post.

Enjoy your 20.00 dollar encapsulated cent that has doubling somewhere on it, valued or not, and I hope that it at some point inspires you to educate yourself about the different kinds of doubling and which ones are produced by the hub devices being doubled in image prior to being used to strike coins vs. the ones that are not.

And I would be willing to bet that I could find more than a thousand examples in the next 10 boxes of cents that I search that would fit in with your double die that is hard to come by. Thus making it not hard to come by.

 

1985D doubled die

Thanks everyone really do mean it .you guys are tough .

 

You know it!

 

1985d dd

I know you guys are good .glad I joined so I can learn.

 

Glad to have you here, everyone keeps learning here.

 

Can we get a pic of the MMNS label?

 

yup

 

If so, then why in heck did you post here?

Just to hear an echo?


FYI:
not a doubleD die

And, regardless of what you feel, MD is not a doubleD die.

 

That is the correct attitude. Remember, we have no vested interest in your coin, we are simply trying to inform and educate you based on the information provided. None of us want to buy your coin but we do want you to have it PROPERLY attributed.....we are trying to help. Close-up, macro pictures of the date and LIBERTY would help because we cannot see ANY doubling on the provided pictures. All we have to go on is knowledge, experience, and lists of known, hub doubled examples. Please look up the coin yourself:

http://coppercoins.com/advsearch.php

Thousands of people post "double die" coins on this site (and other websites). The reality is that most are NOT the valuable hub doubled die coins. I would say less than 1% of the coins I've seen posted are hub doubled.

Good Luck

 

Here is a picture of the MMNS Label. Ken Potter wrote an article on this company in one of the coin collection magazines.

 

I appreciate all the other people opinions in what they have said, but I don't appreciate jerk comments please keep those to yourself. People are here to learn and that is what I am here to do also. You are not my judge or jury. Thanks

 

Thank you so much for your kindness and information.

 

What is the article and which coin magazine (what issue also) did it appear?

One issue I still have (and this is not a jerk comment) is that the picture of the label shows it as a "double die" when that doesn't seem to be a recognized term for an attribute of a variety or error, whereas "doubled-die" is. As far as I know.

 

I may be way out of line here, but how did that grade MS-65?

I'm not sure about the reputabaility of MMNS....

 

Kasia, I am not sure of which coin magazine it was in, because I was at a coin show about 2 weeks ago in Dalton, GA and I read the article.

 

I think it should be noted that the MMNS label does call it a "double die obv." The label does not say "doubled die." So, I would say even the label indicated it is MD.

 

I really think you folks ought to cut the OP some slack.

The OP has said you can see doubling in the date, and he's right...find the scratch at the tail of the 9, the doubling is right above that.

He also said you can see doubling in the bowtie...and again, he's right. It's just to the right of the worn spots on Lincoln's lapels.

This is clearly an MS-65 Double Die cent.

 

Ok, but I will have to see the article, because from what is presented here, and what I have seen on the web with the coin grader's web-site and some of their ancillary pages, I am not impressed with them for this or grading other coins. Or their stated practices on what they will do with a coin that is sent to them for grading. There are a huge number of non-top-tier tpg's and many have questionable grading. I can't really commit to saying this is not a MS state coin, but my first inclination is that it is not a MS-65 quality that could be comparable to prices that MS-65 coins graded by the top two grading services will realize, and that if it was sent to either of them it would not come in at that grade. It's not one I would want to buy sight unseen just because of the grade on it. Obviously that is my considered opinion and I'm not pushing it on you, since my grading capabilities are currently limited.

I, however, know that this coin, as it's been presented has no hub-doubling (i.e., "doubled-die") on it. As I said before, I know that if I was collecting examples of this kind of doubling, I would be over-run with coins without much effort, and it would be a waste of my money to store those examples just for that. They are IMO best sent back into circulation.

You can, however, believe what you want to believe. Many people do and I have no hope I will change someone in that way. Most all people operate according to their belief systems, whether right or wrong. But if you are given a chance to have knowledge shared with you and done so on a basis of knowledgeable people with numerous specialties on a forum where we all contribute, and you pass it up because it doesn't fit into your current beliefs, well then, to me that's not a smart move.

And if you take this as me being your judge and jury, well, that's not true. I don't think I have judged you as a person. I have IMO made no horrible comments about you as a person. And when you came back to say you were here to learn, I welcomed you heartily.

BTW, I will definitely be on the lookout for Ken Potter's articles, with a particular focus on finding out what he has said about this TPG, because he is a highly-respected numismatist.

 

kasia that comment was not for you. it was for someone else who posted treshunt