Is it time to focus on clad coinage?

Got it!

EDIT: I just noticed that it is a D mintmark. Oh well.

 

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The 1982-d wasn't in Mint Sets, either...I would say that's a "keeper".

 

May take a few generations, but eventually people will look at clad coinage and say out loud: "Can you believe at one time you could spend these things?"

 

Spoken like a true "bullion" collector since your comments do nothing but reduce collectible coins to pure bullion. Of course this means that an 1804 Silver Dollar has only the worth of what, $32.14?

BTW, 2001 doesn't have a "Satin Finish" cent. But then I wouldn;t expect a "bullion collector" to know that.

Here's hoping your entire collectible fortune rises and falls with the price of silver.

A numismatist, on the other hand, wouldn't have to worry about that since the value of the piece has NOTHING to do with what its made of as much as it has to do with its design, relative availability and relative popularity.

Atta Boy Fred! Go for it!

 

Here's how I usually put this. A '69-D is exceedingly difficult to find in AU. Nice AU's are far tougher yet since most of these were lightly struck. Lower grades aren't especially difficult to find. If you get 15 rolls of quarters there will probably be a VG or F- '69-D in them. In a box of quarters you can probably find a nice low end VF. Higher grades are elusive but for this date a nice XF is possible with effort. Forget AU's. They aren't out there and almost no one has a single example.

Yes. You can find a '69-D in almost every single '69 mint set. The mintage on this set was not small (~1.8 million). The attrition on the set is extremely high and only about a third of them survive. The '69-D comes very nice in the mint set with chUnc being typical and gems being common (1: 35). This leaves about 17,000 gems in the original production. But this isn't 1969 any longer and large percentages of the '69 quarters in the mint sets are degraded because the packaging is unstable and because of poor storage. Most of these 80% that are degraded could still be recovered if they got attention today but this is a cheap set and the owner has it stashed in the garage and is forgotten. Most of them probably won't get attention in time and are not available to the market at all at this time. These are the sets that will one day "come out of the woodwork" when the price soars but by that time the damage will be permanent in many cases. The number available today is a paltry few thousand plus whatever has been set aside previously. There is very little indication of people setting aside any clad at all. People have a picture of warehouses full of clad or mountains of clad but it does not exist. I've been out there looking for decades and I know there just aren't any such mountains. Yes, there are little stashes here and there but I never claimed these coins are rare, mwerely insufficient to meet the demands of a mass market. There can never be a mass market in truly high grade clads because most of the coins aren't there.

The only reason the coins are cheap is that the demand is smaller than the supply. Most of the collectors of clad are young or new collectors and the old timers are more likely to bash them than collect them. Less sophisticated collectors are less likely to be concerned with condition. Many are collecting coins straight from circulation and some don't even look for the finest specimens. If they can't find a gem they'll buy a lower grade. The low supply has little effect n price soince the demand is low. There are few collectors and the few collectors don't specifically seek gems in most cases.

So the price remains low and the attrition remains high. This equation hasn't changed much since 1969.
Sure, there are far scarcer gems than the '69-D but the demand is still lower than the supply. There are some that are far scarcer but have far higher survival rates as well, but the bottom line is that there is very low demand.

Eventually the demand will increase. Who knows whether it will just be a few of the circulation collectors today or a mass move by millions of states quarter collectors but the demand for these coins simply keeps increasing year in and year out. Eventually some of us will live to see the demand outstrip the supply. With attrition rates exceeding 3% annually in many cases it might not be too far off. This attrition rate actually affects the lower grade coins to a greater extent than the gems. A coin in circulation can always be lost or accidently dropped in the garbage but gems tend to be protected at least by the unstable packaging. MS-60's aren't going to be in safety deposit boxes.

The perception is all these coins are common but there probably aren't 100 fully struck gem 1982-P quarters in the world. This is a simple fact. Then you throw in some monkey wrenches like '69-D or '72-D quarters with type "b" reverses or later issues with type "d" reverses not to mention the numerous DDO's and such and suddenly there are a great number of very scarce or very rare clad quarters. It simply isn't going to take much more than a handful oif collectors seeking nice gem '69-P or '82-P quarters to drive the prices shaply higher. It will then become painfully obvious that none of these coins are as common as the perception. Go into the coin shops and buy every single clad quarter roll you find. If you find 10,000 of them 9,800 will be states coins, 180 will be bicentennial and the others will be mixed dates which are mostly 1965 and one of the '77-'81 issues. This is the way of the world. If you find a roll of '69 quarters it will be put together from mint sets and the nicest ones will be gone.

Each year that goes by simply brings more demand and less supply. The supply will continue to fall quickly until people actually attach some value to the coins.

The '69-D is tough but far easier than a '69-P or even a '70-P. It's easier than the '68 and '71. It might be easier than even the '73-D.

Not really. People saved a lot of rolls of these so none of the varieties will be scarce. But the number of coins saved is small compared to mint set production and the quality of these is poor.

 

Personally, I don't think you're capable of answering the question since.........................the answer was already provided for you.

 

I feel sorry for you.

 

the feelings mutual

 

Your no good at playing detective, I suggest sticking to collecting coins
I am not a bullion collector at all
I am simply a numismatic collector who does not collect modern coinage for the reasons stated above.(this made be difficult for you to understand)
Why slander my good name and suggest things like an 1804 dollar being worth 30 dollars.
Thats quite the hasty generalization as i have said nothing regarding pre 1930 American coinage.
Perhaps its time to put the reading glasses back on your eyes and reread this thread again?

 

Thats all nice and dandy but you make it seem as if demand is for certain to rise in the future for these coins. There are plenty of coins minted all across the world with very low mintages. This does not garauntee a demand for them. Even many old world coins minted in low quantites arent worth much these days. While there are bound to be collectors of clad you just cant say demand will exceed supply.
Theres plenty of people who share and will share my mentality currently and in the future

 

Do you just like the way older designs look?

 

It seems by your avatar your in a state of shock now. Sorry I made you feel that way....
:yes:

 

Wow, 14 posts today more than some threads total.

EDIT: It is 15 now fred13 and I posted at the same time.

 

You're missing my point. It's not the mintage that matters. Those very high priced Russian moderns were made in staggering numbers. None of the mintages are reported but this was a major world economy and much of the business of the nation was made with cash. 50 kopeks was real money and one could get a cup of coffee and piece of pie with one of these coins. The mintages were generally in the hundreds of millions most likely though they had more denominations to spread the mintages among. A 1969 5 k isn't worth close to a thousand dollars because it was rare nor is it worth this much because the demand has suddenly gone through the roof. Most Russian coin collectors still prefer the old silver, gold (and platinum) coins just like American collectors. The price went up a thousand fold because there are a very very few collectors who want one and almost none around.

This is the exact same thing that applies to US coins. Try finding a 1972-D type "b" reverse quarter. Thisa coin had a very high mintage that probably approached 100,000 yet can't be found today and when it is found will be in VG condition. How many collectors will it take to drive the price of this coin sharply higher? Ten? Twenty? With the number of clad collectors increasing year in and year out it really is just a matter of time.

This same thing is going on all over the world. Modern coins weren't saved and now when a few people seek them out they aren't available. Nothing can change this. It is a given. The only thing open to question is when and how much this demand will materialize. It happened elsewhere first because the exploding middle classes have put demand on collectibles.

My intention was not to create any animosity here. Everyone has a right to his preferences and they even have a right to not like other peoples' preferences. But the facts remain the same; clads are scarce and love 'em or hate 'em it's a buyers market and won't stay this way forever.

 

It's hard to say what will happen to the common mass-produced clad market. It's like predicting whether stamps and baseball cards will make a comeback. I'm betting on the highest grade moderns, which are quite cheap now.

 

I believe there will always be interest in the finest examples of any US coinage. I'll agree that hoarding boxes of MS-62 clad crapola doesn't hold much promise. However, if you are lucky enough to cherry-pick the finest MS67/MS68 examples now, I think you will be well rewarded in years to come (jmho).

 

Yes, they are called precious metals dealers.

 

Some of the clad will likely prove desirable in MS-62 and there will be numerous varieties under a lot of demand pressure, most probably.

I do agree that setting aside random clads in MS-62 has proven a sure loser so far and will continue to be a losing bet indefinitely. I bet I could find some highly desirable coins sprinkled in amongst even the junkiest pile of MS-62's if the pile is big enough.

 

Very good thread and sooooo many post.

I have glanced over most of them and seem to get the general drift, but in my case if my albums hole needs a clad to fill I will get it, because in my collection strategy I want to fill all the holes in the various sets I am chasing, regardless ifit it's clad or silver.

 

Here's one I really like.