Is it time to focus on clad coinage?

Well, considering they have the same metal composition, the only differences being that they are not reeded or have a copper core showing on the edges, why would you treat them differently? I find a lot of value in nickels nowadays, but since I do not collect US anymore really, am not buying.

Sorry if I took the post to basically mean, "non-PM containing coins". My bad.

Chris

 

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Doesn't matter if there were or not. If all other cents had 10x that issue, the sVDB would still be as expensive as it is. It is DEMAND that makes the sVDB expensive. The 1909sVDB is 1,000 times more common than most coins I collect, for some its 10,000 times more common, yet my coins are worth much less.

Go into any coin show and I will almost guarantee you will find 1909sVDB for sale. I was at CICF, (one of the largest ancient shows in the country), looking for a "scarce" coin once, and none of the dealers from around the world had one. It took me a year and a half to find it, (silver coin from Kolchis), searching all around the world, yet only cost $85.

DEMAND is always the key. I have a coin that maybe 5 are known, and is worth $100. The problem is there aren't more than 5 people who want that particular coin for its rarity......

Chris

 

I understand what you are saying and I can relate because I collect coins of very scarce mintages myself but you don't seem to understand the fact that demand is not infinite. There is so much clad coinage it will never be valuable and the value of the metal will never reach face. Only ignorant people who think they will hit the jackpot will collect these. You claim that you can find 1909 vdb s pennies at any show, what does that prove? I cab virtually find any of the most sought after American coins with the biggest demand at any show ranging from panama pacific gold dollars to mint state 1916 d dimes. No doubt everything is based on demand but when supply skyrockets demand collapses. Look at the nickel for example. You can find and purchase any date you want for virtually face and get the silver ones for less then melt. Is there a demand for them? People have been hoarding them for a while. Are they crap? Virtually so which explains there lack of value coupled with the fact of billions being made

 

I understand what you are saying, but we simply don't know. My point about sVDB's being for sale means they are not rare, just expensive because of demand. You say every nickel is face value, try going out and finding 82 or 83 BU nickels for face. I bought BU rolls of 38d and 39d years ago I sure am not selling for face.

Its all relative, supply can creat demand. Look at Morgans. They are about the most common US coin out there short of lincoln cents. It is the supply of them that has created demand for scarcer dates. All I am saying is in the future it could be the supply of current coins that creates demand for scarcer dates, regardless the absolute mintage. The sVDB proves that point, since its mintage and survivorship in most regards is not small, it is NOT a rare coin, yet so many other cents were made that they have created a demand for a RELATIVE scarcity, if not a true scarcity.

400 million mintage quarters could very well be in demand in the future, considering how few of them remain in BU condition. To me, all of the 1982 and 1983 coins have proven that.

Edit: Btw I am not advising falling for sales pitches, or sinking a ton of money on idle speculation, its just TC is right, and most collectors miss the next collecting area since they consider them "too common" at the time. Why did almost no dealers stock up on 1916 SL quarters, 1916d dimes, etc? They all considered them "too common" and never worthy of much numismatic premiums. Its well documented that in 1924 a collector went into a show in NY and bought BU 1916 quarters for $.50, 1916d dimes for $.35, and 1921 halves for $.70. None of these items were deemed "collectible". Even every date for buffalo nickels in BU at the show were going for a dime or less.

Am I saying this will replay itself? IDK, but it has happened over and over again in coin collecting.

 

Fair enough, a point well made thank you; you have changed my opinion on the matter

 

I tried saving copper cents but didn't find it worth while. So back to the bank they went.

 

More than 50% of '09-S VDB cents were saved out from ever enterring circulation and the others were pulled out as AU's then XF's, then VF's all the ay down to G's and all were statistically out of circulation by the end of WW II. The few found after this were ones that had been found and then accidently spent.

But fewer than .0005% of something like 1969 quarters were ever saved and the tiny handfull that were saved have had an exceedingly high attrition because there was no big premium causing collectors to take good care of them. Rather than being in safety deposit boxes like '09 cents they were traded to some kid for a little silver or something.

You can find '09 pennies anywhere. Try finding something tough like a nice gemmy 1971 dime or an AU '69-D quarter! The pennies are out there and you just have to pay the price. The moderns no longer exist in higher grades and some never did.

 

I don't understand why collectors ever stopped collecting modern coins back in 1965. Even though I myself did the exact same thing. The government did everything in their power to discourage collecting and it was a terrible time to be a collector. First they announced a date freeze for silver and all 1964 coins but within only several weeks the coinage act of 1965 was passed and their was a 1965 date freeze as well. Silver coins were still being produced with a 1964 date but all clads forever were going to have a 1965 date. These actions crashed the modern coin market of the era and left a bad taste in many peoples' mouths. Coins they expected to climb to the moon were suddenly worth only face value.

To further punish collectors both mint and proof sets were discontinued indefinitely and mint marks were removed from coins. Still tghis wasn't enough and a politician from Utah introduced a bill in the house that would make all modern coin collecting illegal. This Bible bill failed to pass largely because there was no more modern coin collecting. Only a handful of collectors were active in the early years of clad. The most well known of these were Yeoman, Pittman, and Hicks.

It was years before I got interested in these coins. Sure, I watched them closely each year as a student of statics, circulation, and wear and I even celebrated the return of dates nd mint marks but had no interest in starting a collection. This was largely because these coins were made in virtually "infinite" quantity and the FED had the disconcerting habit of losing large quanties of brand new coin. In 1972 they were stil releasing brand new 1965 quarters and were releasing new '69-D dimes until 1975. I saw a story in the paper that the mint and FED were switching to FIFO accounting which entailed swapping out the oldest coins in storage first so I started collecting them.

I lost seven years that I should have been collecting and missed several important varieties.

But better late than never.

 

I should add that the worst thing in 1965 was the knowledge that the silver coins would soon be gone. Everything that was of interest to me as a collector was gone by the summer of 1969 and all the coins in circulation had a boring sameness to them.

 

but your still beating around the bush dear fellow;
99.999 percent of 1909 s vdb could be saved from all I care but the point remains that the mintage of the penny is ALOT less than any clad series mintages.
Secondly type 1909 s vdb and AU 1969 d quarter on ebay and see which gets more results. That speaks for itself.
These clad tokens produced in such numbers will never be valuable. Coins produced in the early 20th century were much more likely to be melted to due to their metal which makes them rare today. The same cant be said for crappy old clad.
To be quite candid I could never figure out why people collect modern coins. I shudder at the thought of paying more then face for something like an uncirculated 1971 quarter or the new inventions such as a "2011 satin finish penny pr 70 which goes for hundreds of dollars. Its my firm believe that everything modern has no value beyond melt and I incorporate my belief system to include proofs and all the other crazy things that America is destroying the rich history of its former coins with.

 

You are the "cladking".
Your opinion is a bit biased on the matter

 

No I have never met a basement dealer

 

(clearing throat in preparation for lecture and hoping he won't get shot down off of the soap box)

If this was in any other forum subsection, I may have let it slide, but since it is not I'll voice my opinion. To answer the OP's original title question, is it time to focus on clad coinage...of course! As I have read through the numerous posts on this thread I have become slightly discourage that individuals think that collecting clad coinage is, for lack of better summation, worthless because of mintage numbers, metalic content, potential for profit gains, or any other numerous reasons. I know I'm probably one of the few but I collect mainly for the artistic merit and symbolism. I enjoy counting hairs on Lincoln's beard; I thrill at distinguishing full torches on the dimes, and the eagle on reverse of the traditional quarter and Sac Dollar are grandiose and proud. I know that a 1992 D FT dime probably won't ever be worthy compared to other things like a 1909S VDB cent, but it kept me entertained during my teens, taught me something about mint state coin collecting, and allowed me to respect the hobby. No. Modern coins will probably never be valuable nor will they contain elusive silver and gold but they entertain my artistic appreciation and offer enough challenge for my wallet, and that is all that matters to me for my hobby needs. (stepping off soap box and said in closing sardonic tone) Now, if you'll excuse me I'm going to look up Franklin Halves on Ebay.

 

Tokens, huh? You do realize there were 1966 dimes produced before 1964 dimes. What automatically makes a silver coin real and a cu ni coin a token.

In 1935 the metal in a 1932-S quarter was worth less than 7c. in 2008 the metal in a clad quarter was worth more than 7c. Are you suggesting that a '32-S quarter started as a coin, degraded to token, and then became a coin again before becoming obsolete. But a clad quarter was never more than a token despite the fact you can still spend it for 25 cents. Sorry, but this makes no sense. Money derives its value from convention and this isn't the same world it was in 1932 or 1935. It's not the same world it was in 1965 when the mint tried to force people to quit collecting moderns and it's not the same world as 1995 when the hobby was dying. Consult a calendar because I believe you're behind the times.

No. The exact opposite is true. Silver gold and copper coins are not often melted for their value but modern coins are often recalled and destroyed. The european coins are a case in point.

 

Yes. I agree. Moderns are collectable simply because they are coins (or tokens). They are collectable in their own right and anyone who doesn't like them needn't bother. There are numerous rarities and no amount of citing mintages and suppositions will change this.

I tried to avoid this thread altogether because it's in this section. I consider clads to be actual coins used in commerce and not some sideline discussion or a subject for chat. When threads like this aren't in the coin section I avoid them.

It does highlight the fact that many people don't even think of these as US coins even after nearly half a century. But they expected me to save enough for everyone who wants one. They better guess again because I just don't have that many safety deposit boxes. One of these days they'll cry about the cost of common coins much like Russians are complaining that coins that cost $1 a couple years ago now sell for close to $1,000.

Time marches on and standing in its way simply has no effect except on those who would try to obstruct it.

 

Yes. My opinion is highly biased and widely known. I have a financial interest in them besides just the collector interest. I've put a great deal of work into them.

 

It's GOOD to be the King...

 

The king ain't gettin' anywhere in regard to that posted pic Yak. The young lady is musing, "what's this guy doing wearing a dress and womens foot wear"? She's about to slam the door........

 

what "european coins"
and clad coins are never melted. What idiot would melt something that is less value then face?
Besides how many mint sets were made with gem clad nonsense?
enough said

 

Ask yourself what is clad and what is silver?
In 1932 a quarter was worth7 cents or about 1/4 of its face.
is clad anywhere near that? No the melt value of a quarter today is some pitiful figure like a cent or 1/25 of face.
Is clad less scarce or more scarse then silver?
I have no need to answer that question do I?