Take back the hobby

Most coin dealers I know are collectors that became dealers. This in the first place is breaking the old rule don't turn your hobby into work. So most coin dealers would rather be looking and grading coins. A customer is a distraction.
I have a couple that are OK once they get to know you. But most are like poster described. You have to do what I do and go in ask the hard questions and if they are not into showing coins, then they are not a dealer. leave and find a real coin dealer. When this boom ends you will see who is still in business. I have been having the same thoughts about the hobby as stated in this post. The hobby is on the back burner till this mess is over for many collectors. I am still having fun so far.
Thanks Big Ed

 

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Makes me sad to think how many early 20th c coins we are losing in UK just because of the pm value, only hope people have more sense with the earlier ones.

 

A dealer should be able to do both well.

 

My local dealer is a family-run business and even when they are busy, they are polite and courteous by recognizing your presence in their shop and making you feel comfortable even if you have to wait a few minutes. And yes, they seem to usually have at least one person in their store selling metals to them. After seeing this shop in action with typically no more than 3 workers at most at any given time, other shops could follow their example of kindness and attentiveness.

 

I am lucky I have what I would consider an Ole Time Dealer. He isn't into the PM market, he has a small shop in a small town and it always reminds me of watching Floyds Barber shop, locals hanging out, talking coins, paper money, local gossip. He's never too busy to pull coins, look for a specific coin I may need and NEVER takes me to the cleaners on price.If fact I have bought many coin below book and below spot if it was just a common only worth melt. Anyway, I know that his kind is an endangered species and we may all have to buy on E-bay or some unfriendly PM/coin dealer.

 

I really don't get the "problem" here.

All that's happened is demand/interest/availability have changed. Your 1879 Lower Elbonian Double Vulture in AU55 is still out there...it just isn't traded as often. Interest not being as high, maybe you can find a good deal on it.

On the other hand, a bunch of your hole fillers have recently become just as valuable as higher grade examples were just a few years ago. Trade up!

Finally...why are we whining about ANYTHING that keeps our LCS in business? Do you honestly suggest that they have some "obligation" to you to pursue a business model that isn't profitable? It's in OUR BEST INTEREST that the LCS remain open and thriving through good times and bad.

If you know your LCS is honest and fair...then tell "the public" about it! "Yeah...Bob'll give you a fair price on your silver!". Traffic in Bob's shop is GOOD FOR BOB...and thus, it's GOOD FOR YOU and GOOD FOR OUR HOBBY. Sorry if the traffic isn't the kind YOU want.

Use this shift in focus to shift YOUR focus, and learn new ways to wheel, deal, buy, trade, acquire, and enjoy.

 

If you talk to the dealers that are buying PM hand over fist you will find that they DON'T go through the stuff they are buying, they don't have the time. If they happen to see something while they are buy it they'll pull it but they can't take the time to search on the small chance they will find a cherry. It's just like it was back in 1980, what comes in during the day has to go right back out at 5 o'clock so they can get a check to cover the purchases they made that day.

None of the TPG's have ever done a grade and slab while you watch deal. It used to be that ANACS and for awhile PCGS and NGC would give a verbal opinion, but they all stopped doing that because they were getting too many complaints about coins that came back not matching the verbal opinions.

The major TPG's have handled BILLIONS of dollars worth of coins and made MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars grading them. Why in the world would they risk a cash cow like that by swapping out some collectors coin? The TPG's reputation for honesty handling collectors coins is something precious to them. If someone could ever prove that their coins were switched by the TPG that would be the end of them. No one would risk sending them their coins.

 

I eat at the cafeteria at work and, after I sit down...but before eating, I peruse the change I just received. I haven't found any great rarities, but I've been finding coins I'm not used to seeing in change.

Today, I got a red 1965 penny with mint luster. Probably an AU...but still, a really nice 46 year old penny that looks like a current issue. I find that amazing!

 

Had something similar happen to me the other day. Not only was I given a Kennedy half in change, but it was an '08 clad proof!

I'd wager anything someone tried to sell it as silver, and got told "I don't want this, it's not silver, go spend it." and the cashier, having nothing else to do with it, gave it back out the next time she remembered to.

 

OMG, that is Crazy! I hope they didn't melt any of the 1934 Australian Melbourne Florins!!!??? I have been looking for a nice one of those for almost a year!

 

I'm not interested in playing the quasi-investment metals game. I agree with the original poster, the mad rush of non-collectors to sell off their PM has really put the true hobby on the back burner at local coin shops. I don't consider stock piling and hoarding PMs as a hobby. And for those of us who dabble in or collect seriously foreign coins, it is truly sad that so many are being destroyed by clueless dealers.

There is one small coin shop in the city where I live (population 100,000). I used to frequent the place until about 2 years ago. I witnessed what I would call unethical practices involving elderly folks who were not being fairly remunerated for what they were bringing in, IMO. I went back to this little shop for the first time in 2 years last weekend. The place was teeming with people; all selling, not buying. There were four guys behind a small counter, running around and weighing jewelry, and shouting things back and forth about "14 Karat" vs. "22 Karat". Frankly, it was a zoo, and the only thing the cases with coins were getting used for was a counter-top to line up all of the junk PM. Long story short, if this is what my "local coin shop" is going to be, then for all I care they can go out of business. That, or take down your shingle and put up a new one with the name "Metal Exchange".

PS -- When you type in ALL CAPS in a forum setting, it is implied that you are SHOUTING. We can get your point just fine without the letters being larger.

 

Where the collector is loosing out is on the lower end coins. As PM prices rise the coins with small premiums become more valuable for their metal content. These are sold as bullion rather than collector pieces anymore. It also means you will have to spend the amount equal to it's bullion value if you are going to have any chance of obtaining one. So circulation coins will become the only place for a collector to develop a modest collection. You will end up needing deeper pockets for just about anything else.

 

I have to say I can't complain about the service. Even though I am the only one buying coins and I don't spend thousands of dollars like the silver buyers, they always treat me like my business is valuable.

 

It's worth paying a premium over melt for a collectible coin if only to see the reaction of the neophytes as they look at you in astonished disbelief.

 

I went down to a hotel where a full page advertisement said gold and silver coins and jewelry were being purchased at the highest ' prices. But it never stated the prices and that ticked me off because these dumb ads never do state them.
Silver at the time was $39.5 and this guy said he would pay $33.00 only for a for a solid ounce of silver, his words. My guess was confirmed. I'm sure he was lowballing gold also. I wish I asked. I talked to a few people waiting to see this guy and they were not collectors/hobbyists and didn't know what the and I got very indefinite answers.
current price of silver and gold until I told them. I told them that could probably make more at a local jewelry or coin shop. And they really didn't care. This really got to me. Here they were wanting to make some money from there junk jewelry and coins and they didn't care. I asked them why didn't they go to a reputable jewerly store and I got very indefinite answers.
I didn't want to press the issues involved so I left with a sick confused feeling that these people didn't care and didn't care to know they were losing money. As I passed by the open door of this buyer's room I heard a woman say '' Oh My Gosh!, WOW! , I Didn't Know It Was Worth That Much. ''. I really needed some fresh air.
I was and still am upset over this situation. As I write this I feel I stepped out of line line do this. Like I'm some expert or something.

 

People are sellling gold and silver because either they need the money or think the market has peaked. A person who is a purist old coin collector, like myself, only watch in dismay at their foolishness. Teletrade Coin Auctions has the best deals if you wait for them. If you have lots of money to spend and only want the best then try David Lawrence Coin Auctions.

 

Nobody suggested you had to be. Is it ok if other are?

So suddenly it isn't one because you don't consider it one? What other forms of speculation and investing are or aren't hobbies? Have you compiled a list, so we all know which are worthy of our attention and time, and which aren't?

Besides...your problem isn't with those who stock pile and hoard, is it? They simply by metal objects minted into recognizable shapes and forms, and then hold them for extended periods of time because of the value they place in them.

You know...like coin collectors.

I'd certainly agree here...when a rarity or valuable work is destroyed through ignorance, it's a loss for all involved.

But then...if a coin dealer can't be bothered to educate himself on the value of the coins he handles, how does that have anything to do with who sold it to him...or their behaviour and attitude while doing so? Didn't the dealer's ignorance about foreign coins exist in 1984, or 2002 as well?

Fair enough. I also wouldn't want an unethical business in my community. But these folks were unethical before the "metals craze" started, according to you...so this story wasn't really about metals exchange.

Just like all your previous complaints in this post...it's a problem with INDIVIDUALS, and a problem that existed REGARDLESS of what was being traded in their shop.

The two coin shops in MY community are owned and staffed by honest and respectable folks, who do their best to make a profit while treating customers with respect and dignity. As a result, their customers tend to ACT in a respectful and dignified manner as well...even when trading in metals. Indeed, I've witnessed the owner of one of these establishments invite a customer to leave the premises due to her "zoo-like" behaviour.

As is the case in "your" shop...that owner was who he is long before metals became the primary source of his shop's business, and he'll continue to be long after they are. Trading in PMs didn't make him or his shop a pleasant place to do business any more than they made your shop an unpleasant one.

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Your whole post is a pretty decent summary of this entire thread. You can't stand the fact that poople view certain coins differently than you do, and feel that some aspect of your collection or collecting activities...perhaps the money you've spent, or the length of time you've been involved, or the rarity of your holdings..who knows...entitles you to dictate to others how they'll run their business, what activities engage their interest, and how they behave when they engage in those activities.

You said yourself you agree with the OP...that we should "take back the hobby". Get over yourselves. The hobby never "belonged" to you to begin with. The hobby existed LONG before you came along, and it'll still be here long after you're gone.

What you're really angry about isn't some noble idea of the purity of your hobby...you're angry that people don't act the way you want them to. You're sitting here throwing a temper tantrum demanding local dealers serve the hobby, AS YOU DEFINE it, and those who would do otherwise are causing some great harm, and must be stopped!

Maybe THEIR hobby is making a profit...and they'll serve that hobby as THEY see fit. Don't like it? Too bad. Those dealers don't OWE you their service any more than you owe them your custom. Withdraw it and shop elsewhere.

Thank you. The post wasn't complete without a a condescending lesson on internet etiquette at the end.

 

I'm just fighting fire with fire, as condescension and omniscience seem to be your forte.

The point of my post was that if a shop that advertises itself as one having collectible coins, then I expect as much. If they want to re-invent themselves as a metals exchange, or a stamp shop, or a baseball card shop, or a candy store, then they should have the respect of their patrons to admit as much. I don't honestly care what they wish to be, and now I know definitively that I will never return to this little shop.

The hobby the OP was referring to was "coin collecting" if I am not mistaken. I do not see what your grandmothers gold bracelet, silver earrings, and platinum wedding band has to do with the hobby of coin collecting. I wasn't lamenting the exchange of bullion ASEs/AGEs or other (quasi) numismatic items. I am mostly annoyed by the fact that most coin shops have been hijacked by the "metals craze" as make-shift jewelry exchanges. I watched a man at a coin show last weekend dig out a gold dental crown (yes tooth shaped and all) from a little baggie. The dealer was more worried about weighing out this little disgusting tooth shaped blob of metal than helping his other customers who were interested in buying some high priced slabbed coins. (If anyone is wondering, that little blob of metal got the old-guy $111!!).

 

Honestly, most B&M shops have evolved into mainly buying shops for non-collectors more and more. Remember, though, they always were. This whole scenario played out 30 years ago, the exact same way. It will play out again in the future.

No one owns the coin shops except the owners, and I for one will not begrudge them making the best profit they can, in whatever field they can. This PM spurt will not last forever.

Think about it this way, do we wish to have whatever B&M shops disappear, or be around? The profits they can make today can help keep them open in the future when the public is not crashing through their doors wanting to buy or sell PM, and we will be the only lonely souls coming in. Trust me, when the general public stops coming in, these dealers will start catering to collectors stronger than today. Until then, they will cater to the greater profits, as they should as businessmen.

Maybe I am too nonchanlant about the issue since I have not bought a coin at a B&M in 20 years at least. Not a lot of B&M ancient shops around, and the few there are charge about 500% of retail.

Chris

 

I was not saying that nice collector coins will surface in circulation, although some silver and nicer modern coins certainly do, but more trying to say that really special coins that were previously in pretty strong hands are now being offered for the first time in quite a while. Not just the same pieces trading from dealer to dealer at shows and recirculating through auctions as people try to make a buck moving them up the food chain. If one is astute and focused in a specialty you will see that the available coins are either pretty ugly or really overpriced, but lately I have notices some real gemmy coins that are new faces on the block. I think the metals bulll market and a poor economy are responsible for that. So eventhough they may not be a bargain, it is nice to have a shot at them. Just my observation, Matt