I just saw this coin on eBay, and at first glance it seems to be authentic. But after doing a little more searching, I have my doubts. http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-Key-Date-...Individual&hash=item5ae1c442c2#ht_3235wt_1165
The coin is in a PCGS holder. The seller is not from China. (He is from California.) The seller has 100% positive feedback with 12,249 feedbacks. The seller has a 7-day return policy. And the coin looks OK to me. What are your concerns?
My concern is this: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-f...lver-Trade-Dollar-PCGS-MS-62-wholesalers.html
Fair enough. But I have to wonder if a seller with 12,249 feedback of 100% would be fooled by one of those. He can look at the coins in hand. We only have photos. (And, no, I did not look the coin up by the serial number.)
Did you notice the titles at both sites? EXACTLY the same, even the capitalization of SUPER. Also, take a look at the far left side of the horizon-- it is not perfectly straight, although this picture of a '74-CC, courtesy of Heritage Auctions via Coin Help, shows a perfectly straight horizon. http://coinauctionshelp.com/Trade_Dollar.html I should add that looking the coin up by the serial number is what steered me toward the Chinese counterfeit site.
It apears to be the same pictures as well. The thing is, the ebay seller has more pictures because theirs shows the number. If anything, I bet those pictures were stolen from that ebay auction and used for their auction (without cert numbers of course) I would alert the seller and find out what is going on, and have a definative answer before purchasing the coin.
Good catch. That is one of those Chinese counterfeits that is not so easy to spot. If it is one of their best products - proper alloy, weight, diameter, etc. as well as very good dies and strong strike - I am surprised at the price (from the counterfeiter - not the reseller). I thoght those sold for way upwards of $100.
I guess I'm a bit confused. Are you saying those counterfeits are actually made out of silver and everything matches? How do you go about spotting them as a fake then if everything matches? Do you guys believe the coin and the holder it's in are both fake? Honestly - it's things like this that will probably prevent me from buying coins of any significant value
Well, I think there is a good chance that the coin is authentic. First off, as someone has said, it looks to me like the Chinese Seller ripped off the photo's from the EBAY seller, not the other way around. It would be silly for the EBAY seller to use the same photos and exact same wording, it is like a smokin' gun. Someone else mentioned the "horizon" which does appear different than the standard issue straight "horizon", but if you look at a lot of trade dollars you will find some in all dates that seem to have that same exact "horizon" pattern. Here is an example of a worn 1877 PCGS certified coin that matches up exactly with the "horizon" on the OP coin. I chose this one since it is unlikley that a PCGS coin grade XF 40 would be counterfeited. There are other out there with this pattern in different dates. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIENTAL-Tr...86?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item5ae1c40e6a In addition, you get what you pay for even in the world of counterfeit coins. I do not believe you can get a fake of that quality for 30 something bucks. If you purchased it, you would either get a very poor substitute or it is a total rippoff and you will get nothing, just lose your thirty bucks. On the same site there are more fake trade dollars for sale and they sell for over $200. So for that price you may get a realistic counterfeit I also find it interesting that these more expensive fakes seem to have the normal straight "horizon". It would make sense then, that any counterfeit on EBAY would have the normal "horizon" The seller also seems to have a thriving EBAY buisness with outstanding feedback, I doubt he would jeopardize that for a few quick bucks Mike Here is the picture of the XF dollar with the non-straight horizon
First link is the real coin at a market price by a reputible seller. Second link is a counterfiet at best scam artist.
I registered just to contribute to this thread. I can actually vouch for the store in Woodland Hills on Ventura. It's about 10 minutes from my house and every day I drive by it on the freeway I wish I was going there instead. Only bringing it up to help eliminate any questions about the legitimacy of that seller. I'd love an excuse to go check out that coin in person
Man I'm really on the fence now. I ran the cert # on PCGS and there is indeed a coin certified MS62 for that #. There is only 32 of them in the population report. Here is a picture taken from PCGS's photograde link. Granted it's dated 1878 but you said there is a obverse 2 that started in 1876. Well here's a picture of a 1877 from the same link. So what's going on here? Are there authentic examples that display a different appearance or are these potential counterfeits slabbed as authentic by PCGS? I do not know, but what about the slab? Is it counterfeit? I agree with Yacorie, I recently read a book I thought would inspire me but really ended up scaring the you know what out of me and had me second guessing my choice of hobbies.
Yes, indeed, what's going on here? Since obverses apparently show obvious variation for the same year, shouldn't there be attributed varieties? Is there any definitive book on Trade Dollars that would explain this?
Try calling Goldcoast Coin Exchange. I would bet it is their pictures that China has copied. I would also guess they would be quite interested that someone is using their pictures. However, I am not sure just what they can do, but I will bet they have a better chance than you.
This particular case goes with my rule of thumb. I DO NOT buy any coin over $100, unless I am personally viewing it in person.
