how to naturally tone coins long term?

If I don't store my silver in an Intercept Shield(R) product, then from what I've read it's certain to tone eventually.

If I store it in a way that I know will result in toning, is that ethical? If I fail to use a desiccant, is that ethical, or does the answer depend on my intent?

 

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Well said. I'd also like to add that one of the major differences between AT and NT is time. But the definitions of AT and NT are ultimately the same. They involve exposure to sulfur in a given amount of time. Increasing the amount of sulfur concentration while decreasing the time it takes to tone is AT, in my book. But you're really only after one thing with toned coins, and that's eye-appeal.

 

At the risk of getting into a logic tangle, that was a good answer.

 

I don't know why it works.

I actually discovered it by accident. I bought a couple wooden cigar boxes when I was in LA and shipped them home for decor. My wife at the time was a decorator. When I got them home. I put one on my desk and emptied my pocket change into it and forgot about it. It got buried by some papers and books. I opened it up 3-4 months later and was surprised the coins had toned.

I remembered that I had a couple more out in the garage so I went to check on them. I had odds and ends, screws, nuts bolts and ofcourse spare change in those as well. They had toned also but I think the heat and humidity of the garage is what made them a little more attractive than the ones that were inside.

So now I rotate coins in and out every 3-4 months and flip them over from time to time.

I consider this natural toning because it is nature that is doing it.
I just happen to keep some coins in a couple old cigar boxes.

 

wow, i thought this thread had died but thanks for the info, i did ask a question about the cigar boxes but hadn't yet got a reply.

 

I have absolutely no problem with you doing this with your coins, but I really have a hard time with the use of the word "natural" here. The box was formed from wood by use of the human hands and machinery. It was then filled with herbaceous material containing tannic acids and other volatile substances which absorbed into the wood ( which has tannic acid also), this material was removed from the box and then coins were added inside. Now I could accept the ones at first as being non-intentional , but then to rotate and flip them to enhance toning negates this for the others.

I am not trying to get on your case, just trying to illustrate the difficulty of separating "Natural" toning and "Artificial" toning, as the difference is in the motivation and intent of the coin owner rather than any chemical process.

I think eventually it will be "Market acceptable" toning vs. "Non Market acceptable" toning.

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I can think of a third, and it explains why I've experimented with these techniques...

So I can tell AT when I see it.

 

I'm starting to think that if the real difference between AT and NT is intent, then it's not a very useful distinction except perhaps a moral one (and certainly not one TPGs could be relied upon to judge). Even then, if somebody wants to artificially tone their own coins for their own enjoyment, well, to each his own, as long as that person is perfectly clear about it when they sell.

I think the more useful distinction, and the one I care about, is how the toning _looks_. Does it look like somebody did some magic to it that threw a bright rainbow without any depth of beauty across the front? Then that's the sort of AT I care to avoid. Did somebody leave it in a cigar box or a napkin for a while and produce something with some real character to it? I'm not concerned with that person's intent, I'm concerned with the eye appeal of the coin.

I understand what widespread NT-like AT could do to the toned coin market, but... I guess I don't really care if some heavily-invested people lose out, because what another person wants to do with his or her own coins, or what types of coins a person would prefer to buy for their own enjoyment, is really up to the individual.

Just to be clear, I like toning. I don't have many toned coins, and have never tried to AT (and don't have any plans to).

 

Welcome Dingodonkey.

 

Not a problem. It's not like I'm selling them or anything. I'm just curious to see how they turn out. Some are nice and some are ugly.

Using your logic, a Dansco album is made by man but it has toned all of my coins. If I continue to put coins in albums..is that natural or artificial?

 

I don't care what they say about you....you're alright, "Mad Outcast."

 

What I was saying is that if one is to use the terms artificial vs. natural, this would be natural if you had no prethought to have them tone ( intent), or artificial if there was the intent. Obviously this is not determinable from examination of the coin or toning, so the use of the terms are misleading IMO. Of course you do have some who say they can tell the difference 100% of the time, I can not.
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I have looked for W-R holders at coin shows without any luck. I guess they will help silver coins under the right circumstances. Gold, however, is an entirely different matter. I have had low end mint state gold coins that have had hairlines fade out over time, on a sunny window sill, and that later earned a M61 or MS62 grade.

The coin doctors apparently have all fast methods. I remember having an AU58 better date $20 that I spoke with a coin dealer about that he had someone work on. It came back in a MS61 holder. It had a dark blotch on the obverse as a result of the work the doctor did. Why it was certified by the tpgs, I have no idea.

I recently picked up some gold coins in old PCGS holders. One was a type II $20 AU58, very high end, and with attractive orange blush toning. I don't know whether it is natural or not.

 

Intent

Intent is the optimum word! I have always liked the toned coins and I purchased a few artificially toned coins on ebay hoping that this would help me identify artificially toned ones and it has to a small degree. I was at the last Long Beach coin show a few months back and I overheard a seller saying he was an expert on coin toning and could tell when a coin was artificially toned. I have my doubts, but perhaps he can. I for one cannot and I agree with the definitions here that any intent to accelerate the natural process should be considered artificial toning. There is a local coin dealer who has half a dozen or so silver eagles sitting on top of each other (in a staggered or 'step-like' fashion). He placed them there deliberately some time ago to see how they would tone. I inquired about them about a year or so ago when I started to collect toned coins. He has always maintained that they are not for sell. It is just one of his projects. Being a dealer for many years I'm sure that he knew that the coins would tone. What they would look like? I don't think he knew, thus the experiment.
I have of late begun a collection of toned silver eagles. I am pretty sure all have natural toning. Also, I think most of the toning is 'album toning'. I have placed them in my own album so I can view them easily and hope that they continue to tone. If they don't that's fine too. They are already beautiful. By the way, I still have room in the album for a NT 2009, 2010 and a 2011.

 

So just because They were staggered just to see how They would tone it is considered artificial? I dont see it accelerating the natural process, They are just sitting on top of each other. Sure He wants them to tone and I belive that is fine. Wouldnt placin them in a folder for them to continue to tone also be intent and then be artificial?

 

Will they tone further in the album? Probably. I am sure they came originally from someones album. I have a 'frosty' set in an album as well. If I look at them 20 years from now and they have this beautiful concentric toning, is that artificial? Have I accelerated the toning process by placing them in DANSCO albums instead of Intercept Shield?

 

So its not ok to stack coins in a window to have them tone but its ok to put them in a Dansco album for them to tone?

 

You can do whatever you want with your coins. There are no laws to say that you cannot stack them in a window.

 

I really like this answer! "Market acceptable" toning vs. "Non Market acceptable" toning.