Can Vendors Be Legislated By Law To Take Certain Denominations Of Coins Or Currency?

Okay,

As some of you may know, if you've seen my thread in the paper currency board, that my "Famous Dogs" half dollar idea didn't go over well, as I expected, so I proposed a new bill called the "Historic Buildings & Monuments Half Dollar Coin Act" which would still feature President John F. Kennedy on the obverse, either a redesigned image or the same. I left that open, legislation-wise, but the reverse would feature four historic buildings each year, over a period of 8 years, with the White House being portrayed first. Then other buidings like the Moticello, Lincoln Memmorial, Washington Monument, Statue of Liberty (even though she is already enjoying a LOT of time on the PrezBux ), maybe even, although its not a "building" type of monument, Mount Rushmore could be featured as well.

I actually always joked about the Washington Monument as a kid. I called it "the Giant Sword" because, well, it always looked like a giant sword with the handle stuck in the ground.

So anyway, I have read on Treasury websites that the government can NOT "force" "any" denomination of coin or currency on the general public, but I was just now reading someone's comment somewhere saying that, vending companies would have to be legislated to accept $1 coins, and I have read that Congress did pass a "Removal of Barriers to get the $1 Coin Circulating" so my question is, can I put in my legislation that all vendors and self checkout companies be legislated to where they must be able to accept and dispense the new halves, and new $2 bills in change as needed, as well? If so, I would like to include that wording in my bill, before I submit it to the woman who is helping me with these issues. I doubt you could force any vendors to upgrade, but I am not totally sure, so, could someone please answer this question for me? Thanks.

P.S. If Independence Hall appears on a half dollar again, perhaps it would be wise to put the back of that building on the reverse of its half dollar, since the front was already on the Bicentennial half. It could be just like the old and new $100 bills.

 

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According to a couple of court rulings, Apple Computer and one of the airlines, vendors may refuse to accept currency in general and require a credit card as long as the payment is denominated in US dollars. Courts have also held that vendors may refuse an "unreasonable" payment in currency, such as paying your utility bill all in pennies or refusing to accept $100.00 notes at your late night convience store. You may want to look at creating some type of incentive such as the "Removal of Barriers" approach. I think your idea of historic buildings and monuments on a large coin such as the half dollar has the potential of creating a beautiful series of coins.

PS: I have never had a vendor refuse any dollar coins, and have had a couple who were happy to accept them since it was a rarity for them, You may want to include things like bill readers in vending machine accepting the $2.00 bills and some type of direct shipping program for those bills since they are hard to come by.

 

"Legislated by law"? I'm not sure what else​ something could be legislated by...

 

I think you need to pick your battles. If you want the redesign idea to make it through Congress, it should not be coupled with a requirement that will likely face significant opposition.

 

The act of Smith & Wesson?

But seriously, I don't think forcing vendors or business owners to take certain denominations of coins or currency would be constitutional. A lot of business' won't except $50 or $100 bills for many reasons and it should remain that way, a choice of the vendor/business owner.

 

All coinage is "legal" coinage in the US. This have never meant, though, that a private individual has to aceept ANYTHING for a sale. He can tell you this loaf of bread is $2, but only payable in nickels. It is up to you whether you wish to buy under those circumstances.

The legal tender aspect of our currency is for debts. Someone cannot hold you in default for a debt if you present them with US currency. There have been rulings about paying in pennies, etc, but those are more nuisance cases.

Bottom line is for purchases you have never "had the right" to pay as you wish. The seller always has had the right to dictate payment if they wish to risk the sale. Only debts are subject to "legal tender".

 

Except for coin collectors, half dollars are not very popular. Maybe they should just stop making them and save money. Get rid of the penny too.

 

In general, if you are required to pay for goods or services before you receive said goods or services, then the seller or provider of the goods or services can dictate the forms of acceptable payment.

Thus, an owner of a retail store can refuse to release a product to you if you attempt to pay in nickles.On the other hand, if you receive a product or service before having to pay, the vender must accept whatever form of payment you offer. If you eat a meal in a restaurant, you can pay with whtever coin/currency you have on hand.

There are certain "nuisance" and practical restrictions andlimitations on each of these payment scenarios. If you fill you gas tank before paying and attempt to pay with a sack of dimes, you can be required to stand there, count out and roll the coins before they are accepted as
payment. If you go through an unmanned
highway tollbooth you MUST have quarters to pay,
no bills or credit cards.

See "invitation to treat".

 

Well, here is my proposed bill:

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE

THIS ACT SHALL BE TITLED AS THE "HISTORIC BUILDINGS & MONUMENTS HALF DOLLAR COIN ACT"

SEC 2. DESIGN AND ISSUANCE OF HALF DOLLAR COINS FEATURING HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND MONUMENTS OF UNITED STATES HISTORY

(a) Notwithstanding the authority of the Secretary of the Treasury under the 8th undesignated paragraph of section 16 of the Federal Reserve Act, beginning in 2013, coins in the denomination of 50 cents shall be redesigned, and have such designs, and be in such form and tenor as the Secretary may select in accordance with this section.

(b) The obverse of these new half dollar coins shall continue to feature President John F. Kennedy and shall not change in design, unless otherwise legislated.

(b) The reverse of these new half dollar coins shall feature four different Historical Buildings and/or Monuments each year, over an 8 year program, with the White House to be the first Historic Building featured.

SEC 3. REVERT BACK TO A PERMANENT REVERSE

(a) The traditional Eagle & Shield design shall be permanently placed back on the half dollar coin's reverse after the "Historic Buildings & Monuments" half dollar program ends, unless a new design is otherwise legislated.

SEC 4. PUBLIC AWARENESS

(a) A public awareness program shall be put into place to educate the American public on the new half dollar coins featuring the new Historic Buildings & Monuments, similar to the "State/Territorial/America the Beautiful Quarter Dollar" series, and the "Presidential/Native American One Dollar Coin" series.

SEC 5. VENDING MACHINE & SELF-CHECKOUT ACCEPTABILITY

(a) Vendors and self checkout companies will be given a chance in advance, to retool and reprogram their machines to take the new half dollar coins, should they choose to do so, and wish to invest in accepting the new coins.

===================================================================

You people can let me know if I left anything out, or if this looks good enough or not.

 

Since the 1790s Congress has required an eagle on the reverse of any coins with a denomination above 10 cents. The original Liberty Bell design for the reverse of the Franklin Half did not include an eagle. Before final approval someone realized an eagle was required on the reverse of the Half so a tiny eagle was added.

Did Congress repeal that law somewhere along the line? We seem to have gotten away from the tradition of depicting an eagle on the reverse of the Quarter and larger denominations with the Bicentennial Coins, State Quarters, Territorial Quarters, Native American Dollars, etc.

 

The original Coinage bill specified an eagle for all PM coinage. They changed it for half dimes and dimes in the early 1800's because it was impractical.

I think today, or at least from 1965, its not applicable for regular coinage since it is no longer struck from silver. Any eagles that survive are just remnants. Commemoratives do not have these because they are authorized by separate legislation.

My rememberance of the order of events anyway. Great question, most people do not realize why there is a tiny eagle on the Franklins.

 

What monuments will be on the coins???

 

Whatever monuments are the most important to U.S. history, I suppose.

 

To me, I don't see this bill getting passed.

Since the state quarters program, there have been too many programs trying to duplicate the success. And none have done it.

Ask any average American about the America the Beautiful program and odds are they won't know what you are talking about. **** I doubt most of the general public didn't even know there were different cents put out. And since halves are no longer in circulation, it would only be a program for collectors.

 

I have yet to find an America The Beautiful quarter in circulation.

 

Why not? There may actually be a demand for halves, once more people are made aware that they are still available, and there IS a slot for halves in most current cash registers, and unlike the $1 coin, there is no 50 cent bill to counter the half dollar coin, so, I would say the half has a better chance at circulating with a program, than $1 coins would. Most people do not want dollar coins because there are already $1 bills, but as I said, since there is no "choice" with the 50 cent denomination, people may be more open to carrying less quarters, even though one half is almost (but not quite) equal to the weight of two quarters.

I do not see many of the new (2009) cents or new nickels, so, obviously there ARE people who like them, because they obviouly are hoarded, and hoarded coins of any denomination gains the government money, so why not create a new series of halves, and dimes for that matter.

I agree. I do wonder who gets all of these new quarters and hoards all of these new quarters. They've got to be being released somewhere. I always pay my 7 Eleven clerk buddy each year for two of each new quarter to put away that comes out, and he DOES manage to get them here and there, but far and few between. But hey, even if the new half program causes the old halves to circulate, there's an acomplishment right there.

I've been seeing mant 2010 and 2011 cents, but I rarely to never see 2009 cents of any design anymore.

Not entirely true. They still mint circulation quality halves, at a premium of course, but, circulation quality could mean the same as "Minted for circulation"

 

You folks are missing the original question. The question, paraphrased, is can a law be passed requiring vendors to accept a coin or mass of coins? The answer is yes, you just have to get the law passed. Currently there is no such law, but there is nothing to prevent one form being passed.

No the law is still on the books and still in effect, but it can be superseded by subsequent legislation that specifies the design to appear on the reverse of the coin. typically in the most recent coin series designs they have specifically exempted them from the eagle requirment.

 

Can Vendors Be Legislated By Law To Take Certain Denominations Of Coins Or Currency?

They can pass any law they want but if they do. "Do venders have to be venders?
In the end it will be the buyers that dictate what sellers will do.
Before they waste more money making coins very few are using any more just quit making the rag bucks that wear out in just over a year and the cents nobody uses anymore even though they cost more than double what their worth.

 

IANAL, but a debt might be created once a service is rendered or a product delivered
A seller can set the terms before providing something, so stuff like a sign saying "no bills larger than $20" is OK.

yes, legal tender laws only require that the currency be taken as payment of debt.
In the US, any denomination is legal tender up to any amount.
In other countries, various denominations of coins are legal tender only up to a certain quantity/face value