People are getting better ion AT coins

Wow, people are getting better on AT coins but guys, you have to be aware of these unnatural coins. Some of these coins look nice but look at how the toning just lays on top of everything with spots of "tint" looking colors. http://cgi.ebay.com/1947-S-S-Gem-Lu...99?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item35b34aaaa3

 

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very true though something w/ that coin doesnt look right to me..to "me' it just seems fake, I can't discribe it other than it looks fake. Then again I would never buy a coin that is not graded on Fleabay.

 

Very true Shoewrecky. It is hard to explain specially to new toned coin collectors. I guess it takes years of experience and seen so many in hand.

But I have got to say, this is the worst I've seen so far: http://shop.ebay.com/rainbow*toned/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

 

QFT my friend, and it bothers me that there are people out there that purposefully/knowingly take advantage of someone's else lack of knowledge/experience.
Those "toned" coins that you linked are horrible and the fact that the seller would AT coins disgusts me. /Sigh.
The fact that word toned is used lightly on ebay it doesnt prevent people from having AT coins and probably nothing that will be done about it either.
..

 

I used to get very upset with how ebay sellers are pushing their AT junk. I found that it is not worth my time or energy to even care anymore. Instead, I educate myself on what an NT coin looks like. I put the pressure on a buyer to know what they are buying. I am not saying I always end up with NT coins, but I would bet I have a 90% success rate. I have purposely artificially toned coins using different methods to see how they turned out. So I know what to look for when purchasing toners. It was truly an eye-opener. Anyway, the ones you posted are so ridiculous, they and the sellers dont even deserve a second look.

PS: tonedcoins always has beauties for sale at rigosplace.com Why don't you ever push your website Rigo!

 

I too used to get very upset and I got many threats from coin docs but never worried about anything they said. I know I taught many people about toned coins when I used to write and debate but now I just keep to myself and keep learning to better educate if need to. However, I still bring links as such so others be aware that even if a coin is nice looking, doesn't always mean they are natural.

gbroke, I am not that into rigosplace at this moment. The wife and I have been so busy creating the new website I have almost neglected it, having nice coins to list but little or no time to do so. I post on here and then I'm out. It's like that everyday around this crazy home

Want to buy it? :yes:Joking

 

Yuck....definately "has the look" but I don't think they're getting any better. $10 for a PMD coin, ebay never ceases to amaze.

 

Hey toned....why not change your icon title? It still says you're a "junior". LOL How about "Toning Master".

 

Disclaimer: Not trying to start another toned coin posting war. I am not going to comment on HOW to do it properly, or if any coins today that people think is NT could be AT.

I am just surprised that more of the AT people who did it in the 70's didn't pass their knowledge along. These AT coins posted are just comical, so there is no way they learned to "correct" way to do it. I seriously do not know if maybe a lot of this knowledge was lost, if those people who used to do it are now just dead, or what. Maybe the difference is that AT coins used to have to pass as NT as much as possible to even warrant trying to AT it, now the brighter the better in some uneducated peoples eyes I guess.

Either way it just makes me sad to see so many coins being ruined by idiots with this comical AT. AT in the past was at least natural looking, and only done on problem coins.

Chris

 

I know exactly what your saying. The new doctors are just lazy and impatient. :thumb:

 

Not only lazy but just plain ole' greedy to make a buck fast. See, what bothers me now a little more than these pathetic docs are the buyers. Why? Well because many say they buy for "investment". Not knowing (obviousely) what an investment is because if they did, they would research and try very hard to educate themselves on what they are "investing" in.

Medoraman, I know what you mean buddy. As a matter of fact, there were "better looking" AT coins a couple of years back. Although they (IMO) are all coin damage and I sure don't like damaging ANY coin because they to me represent history, uniqueness, rarity and something made here that will never be made again. As more of these coins get destroyed this way, the harder and rarer they become, taking away the collecting opportunity (again IMO) from new and young numismatists.

Anyway, the coins or links posted are to show you that they are easily identifiable as ATed coins. In AT coins which had their toning agent applied via gas or liquid, the toning is going to run over the letters and design elements. If something is applied via gas or liquid it can not discriminate between the raised and recess areas of the coin - it is going to apply evenly.

BTW, thanks badthad Still learning with only a couple of years studying and collecting these coins.

 

Maybe these guys are still around, and have gotten so good we cant even tell the difference....just a thought...

 

How, precisely, do you know the Lincoln is AT? Frankly, I am skeptical of your assessment.

 

You can be as skeptical as you want and or buy what you like whether you believe it to be AT or NT. In a naturally toned coin you will see toning laying within the lettering and more or less breaking at the design elements. In AT coins which had their toning agent applied via gas or liquid, the toning is going to run over the letters and design elements. If something is applied via gas or liquid it can not discriminate between the raised and recess areas of the coin - it is going to apply evenly. Not the case with Air Transfer. In this case, one good sign of AT is that the coin has some questionable splotchinness (just in front of Lincolns chin) which is not a natural reaction specially having the rest of the colors (toning) progress almost perfectly.




Lets remember that naturally toned pieces will have depth to their toning. On the closeup of the mint mark (S), the toning is practically gone. Should show strongly when magnified (if naturally toned). Artificially or Accelerated toned coins will usually have no substance to it and the toning will appear as though it is floating on the coin versus being engrained onto the coin's surface.




With this said, I just want people to be aware. I am not telling you or anyone to not buy the coin. I get questions sometimes by e-mail of people asking for my opinion on a certain coin. This coin was one of them. I said I would NOT buy it but I don't know if the person did or did not. So as I said "be as skeptical as you want and buy what you like.

 

Now I recently owned the 1930 cent pictured below. I traded the coin with a member. He certified the coin with PCGS and I believe consigned it with Shane (kryptonitecomis). Just look at the difference in the toning pattern, layout of the toning and depth of it as well. Now, do you see a difference?

 

Yes, I see a difference. I also see that it violates one of the rules you stated in your prior post. Specifically, the toning on the second coin is "run[ning] over the letters and design elements. If something is applied via gas or liquid it can not discriminate between the raised and recess areas of the coin - it is going to apply evenly"

In addition, I'm not sure how anyone can tell, from a picture, how the luster and color work together (i.e. "color floats on top") -- you need to see the coin in-hand to make an evaluation of this characteristic (a characteristic, I think you were very correct in pointing out).

That said, this seller's newest offerings seem MUCH more questionable, and it is fairly evident the seller is enhancing his pictures (saturation/contrast enhancement).

 

But isn't natural toning "applied via gas" -- gases present at low levels in the air surrounding the coin?

 

There is a difference between gas and "air transfer". There are exceptions to what I just said, most notable are whitman albums which had high sulfur content and toned really thick over the peripheries and lettering. But if you understand that type of toning you can make the appropriate exception. As you can imagine, a slow drawn out process of air transfer will have some unique toning characteristics that can not easily be repeated in a hasty manner.

Leadfoot: I believe that with years of experience and if the coin pictures are good enough, you are able to tell if the toning is real or not. I always have believed that. Doesn't mean it is possible 100% of the times but in most cases. Luster, well that's a little more difficult. Even when the coin images are enhanced, it is that much more easier to see the AT colors on the coin.

 

I agree with your assessment, but need to understand better what you mean by "most".

To this point, I believe rather strongly that most collectors (particularly intermediate/advanced collectors) tend to overestimating their ability to accurately assess NT/AT, and we should be careful from speaking authoritatively about something so subjective and inherently fallible.

Respectfully...Mike

 

I hate to sound stupid, but I am new to collecting so i want to learn terms so I can understand better. What does "AT" and "NT" mean?