Market grading: the true story...

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I would consider the possibility that there are high-end encapsulated coins that have been successfully cracked out and put into a different form of archival holder. Some of these people have/will eventually die and their collections be release back into the wild. Also, hard times come, and they may be released back into the wild when money is needed...fast.

 

I always thought, in my perfect little world in my mind, that if TPGers would start a new type of slab, have a computer scan the surface of the coin to prevent any crackout upgrades, that the whole TPG model would be very beneficial to coin collecting. I would love to know relative rarity of issues and series by grade, its just with massive crackouts and regrades the TPG data is too unreliable.

I laughed reading about Cac "fourth party" verification. I really laughed because I am waiting for the day someone will make Cac "tag" protectors to keep the Cac tag "mint". With that final step, slabbed coins will be equal to beanie babies.

 

:smile

CAC tag with the 5th Party grading slab coin..What color sealed they gonna use? maybe ORANGE?:thumb:

 

I don't assume that. I KNOW there are still some very high end coins out there in old collections etc that are waiting to be discovered. But it took YEARS before any significant number of the relatively large number of 66, 67, and 68 coins to turn up. Very odd when you consider that in those early years the TPG's were getting so many coins in that it took months to get the coins back, and that the market went through the 1988-89 boom where even 65's were bringing moon money, but the higher grade coins were not appearing. It wasn't until after the crash that the higher grade coins started making their appearance. And frankly not until prices were reaching their low points. "Now that prices are real low lets send in our good stuff"

PCGS has done this twice now. First with their Expert system they had back in 1991, and now with their Secure Shield they started about a year ago. (And which we seem to be hearing about less and less.) Under the Expert system all coins were to be scanned and they would be recognized if they were resubmitted. Under Secure Shield they will only be recognized if they are resubmitted under Secure Shield again. At the higher fee rate.

 

Doug, but isn't the point to not have to take anybody's word for it? Why are we in this hobby? Are we collecting third-party opinions, or coins? What are we appreciating when we're compelled to rely on any third-party to grade our coins?

 

One thing I think should be said is the good that TPG has done. I like others like to talk about the "good old days" but in reality the old days were not so good. You had people left and right getting sold vastly overgraded, cleaned, damaged coins at red book prices. The simple fact of the matter is most people do not choose to get as involved in their coin collections as others. They wish to buy coins, to own them, but not work at their grading and authentication skills. This is the group who has been scammed by non-reputable dealers for years, and when those stories came out repeatedly gave the hobby black eyes. In this regard I like slabs, since I feel fairly comfortable telling my uncle who wants a nice coin that if he buys one in a PCGS or NGC slab he should be assured its a nice, authentic, collectible coin, not some horror story.

Now, having been nice about slabbing, (I know, a shocker), the complaints about grade inflation, market grading, TPG telling us they would never slab modern coins and then doing exactly that, and certain issues having problems overlooked are all still fair. My dislike of slabbing is that it enables to have huge price differences for tiny little grade differences, but that is a function of collectors, not the slabbing companies.

Chris

 

I hear you on the point you're making with the MS66. I'll bet even if I put an Eddiespin sticker on my MS66 most collectors would still buy the PCGS one over it!

Really, though, why should we have to "trust" anybody? That's what I'm trying to get at. I understand the collectors who are going online and buying off pictures. But, really, if we don't know how to grade, what are we buying, coins, or commodities?

Think about it. It would seem, if we're buying coins, we'd know how to appreciate the condition of same. In fact, isn't that, "condition," at the crux of every hobby? I don’t care if it’s coins, pocket watches, sports cards, stamps, comic books, what have you, the most important thing is always the condition. Yet, if you don't know how to grade coins, I'd think it a fair question, "What are you doing collecting them?" Are you a coin investor? You're certainly not a coin collector. If you don't know how to grade coins, what are you appreciating? Maybe that star on that grade in that slab? Maybe that price tag. You don't even understand what you're looking at, beyond that, how can you even think you're collecting coins?

I have a friend who collects paintings, Doug. He has a Picasso water-color sketch he paid dearly for hanging in his library. I'm ashamed to tell him it's been hanging upside-down for like nine years.

 

FWIW, Doug, we're of the same mind on all of that, except, strictly-speaking, on the last paragraph. If one hangs out in the PCGS forums, I'll agree; there certainly are more plastic buyers than coin buyers. That's certainly the perception, there. At NGC, as I read those forums, it's a little less the perception. Elsewhere, though (it's my perception, anyway), the hobby is still very much alive and well, and the members are either grading, themselves, or at least making an honest effort to learn the ropes. They're not categorically "buying into" the marketing manipulation/hype. Rather, they're buying coins they're grading, themselves. At least, I'd hope I have that right. Have to shove off, again...

PS: Now that I think of it, you'd hope it, too.

 

Come to the "dark side" and join us with ancient coins! We ask costs sometimes just to see if we can acquire something, but its very far down on the list. I shared some coins last Thursday at the local ancient coin club, and values were not discussed. We just apprecaited learning the history, what the coin is portraying, how it linked into what we know, etc.