Some may recall I went to a show at Baltimore and wrote up the experience: http://dougsmith.ancients.info/coinshow2011.html This past weekend was the next Baltimore show but I'll pass on a full update and just show a few coins that followed me home. This time, I only bought coins from two dealers (down from three - one the same as last time) but ended up spending twice as much simply because the dealer happened to have more things that appealed to me this time. The difference was a collection of denarii he had in stock that included mid grade coins (my preference since I don't pay ten times as much for a fractional improvement). I suspect these were from an old collection since most coins were toned but not all the same tone as would be the case if they were treated new hoard material. Most coins had a fault that kept them from being worth big money but they were far above the 'garbage' many dealers at the show were passing off as what is necessary if a coin is 2000 years old. This post will show three Republican denarii. He had a dozen others but they were either too perfect for my pocketbook or duplicates of things I had. Feel free to post your similar coins for comparison. First is a decent example of the early popular type showing Roma head backed by Castor and Pollux (Dioscuri) on horseback. As customary the issuing moneyer's name C. Terentius Lucanus is abbreviated. As a bonus this coin (c.147 BC) shows a minor type of Victory behind Roma's head. With a little less wear, this would be a high demand coin. It is only average in terms of centering and strike since it is generally easier to find these earlier denarii well stuck than later when sloppy workmanship became more common. Next is a coin with much detail that entered my price range due to the flat strike that loses detail on the top of the head of Bacchus and the end of the moneyer's name Q. TITI. It still has nice details and the reverse is well enough centered to include Pegasus in full glory. By. c.90 BC, workmanship is not as high standard as it had been so I'll call this an average strike, too, but I'm glad the selling dealer considered that flatness and obverse centering reasons to price it down. Many sellers would charge extra for the horse details here and hope buyers would ignore the problems. Finally is the coin with the worst faults. One I was aware of when buying and the other was a surprise I could have avoided had I memorized the catalogs (but probably would have bought the coin anyway). Pan (moneyer's name was Pansa so he could not resist the pun) is described as a 'mask' rather than a head by the catalogs. I can't say I see what parts are missing that make it a mask rather than a full portrait of the ugly old god. The problem is that these coins are cataloged according to the presence or absence of a minor symbol behind the head and that area is off center so you can't tell if the coin is Vibia 18 or 19. From style and comparing pictures I'll guess 18 but collectors like coins that can be cataloged fully and this one has a big issue there. The reverse is also faulty, I believe, because the reverse had a flan adjustment mark similar to the pronounced one I showed here last month (below). That coin was of this moneyer's father and Pansa coins often show them so I am guessing that the head detail loss on the the reverse figure might be from this as well. The reverse is 'special' since it shows Jupiter seated but he is identified as IOVIS AXVR referring to the temple of Jupiter at A(n)xurus (Terracina) and probably shows the (now lost) statue there. The legend at the right C VIBIUS C F C N shows this is a coin of the younger moneyer listing that he was also the grandson of C. Vibius (N=Nepos) while his father had only been son C F (F=Filius). http://www.cointalk.com/t176357/ Getting to go to that show was my Father's Day present. There will be more ordinary coins to follow since I never can keep out of the half price boxes.
I really like the C. Terentius Lucanus crowning Roma, its the first time I have seen such example on a roma head, very cool. Also like the reverse. The Q. TITI is also nice, I wouldnt say no to it & the horse details do make that coin. The Pansa is interesting but I will admit it is one I may pass after looking at others the seller may have had. If the coin was priced as cheaply as my jupiter one I got on ebay, then I would have bit. All in all they are all three great coins & I am glad you shared them & their info with us. Look forward to your post of the "ordinary" coins.
Those coins are REALLY beautiful. Great eye to pick those up! Can you share the rough market value on those. That would be helpful to us newbies trying to figure out what fair prices are. It's hard for me to pick out a favorite or rank them as each one has a unique beauty -- I think the reverse on coin #2 is the bomb ... and the reverse on #4 is also really great My favorite obverse might be coin #1 or coin #3 They are all stunning!
Winged, generically Republican denari used to be $50. This is for a common vf coin. Nowadays its more like $100-$125 from what I see. This is the "base". Most of Doug's coins aren't the common varieties so would be some multiple of that. Having Sear's Roman Coins and Their Values Vol I, (2000) cover these well, and give relative pricing. I use that to gauge relative rarity/demand for a Republican and use that versus "base" coins to guess at a value. To put that in perspective, your coin is also not a common variety, so it is worth more than the "base" coin. I haven't looked yours up, so I do not know what Sear would say about its relative higher value above that. Hope that helps.
According to my Sear 2000 edition, Winged's new coin in VF is $96 & EF is $175 Interesting, my Flaccus is Sear 183, right after his....
Rare/common is less a factor than high/low demand. My Pegasus is a common coin but popular. Of my coins, the twin horsemen was the most expensive (still less than half of yours) due to the neat victory added to the obverse and the nice balance that adds to eye appeal. The others are not at all rare but not perfect specimens. I bought them priced accordingly but many sellers would try for top dollar and figure someone would think anything that old must have faults. I probably find coins easier than you do. Why? After many years I know places to look and things to look for but mostly places not to bother looking simply because I know certain dealers are a waste of time. Way too many sellers fail to distinguish between really nice coins and just 'sort of nice' coins. As a result, they sell the better ones quickly and are left with things worth $50 that they priced at $250. Also, I buy what I find that appeals to me rather than feeling the need to fill a certain want at whatever price I find. The coin show that produced these coins was good for Republicans but I failed to see a Septimius Severus denarius that I would buy for 1/4 price. We each shop in a different manner.
You are right of course, in my mind I kind of commingle popularity with scarcity together. Kind of "market scarcity" if you will, all meaning on the market how much of a premium does a coin demand over common based upon true scarcity or popularity. makes it easier for me, but I do know the two things are distinct. Winged, one thing that will be much different that US coins is rarity. You really can find coins that only a few exist for little money. Rarity is so common in ancients we don't get too worked up about it. I was looking for a coin described as "scarce" for two years once. No, not trying to find one I liked, just trying to find one at all, anywhere in the world, for sale. I searched two CICF shows, all the major European auctions and dealers, CNG, Vcoins, nothing. Finally found it on some little homemade website for sale. This is common, not like US collecting where if you want about any coin you can have it, in almost any grade, its just matter of price. Here, its not really price but being able to even find it available in any grade. A friend of mine is looking for an admittedly rarish coin, and he has been looking for 18 years, and has 5 international dealers looking for him. So far no luck, the last one he found for sale was sold in 1976. Its part of the appeal to me really. It teaches patience, something otherwise I do not have a lot of.
It is not terribly unusual to find a coin that is not listed in any of the works of standard literature especially if you accept some minor spelling difference or combination of known obverse and reverse. Since there are many such coins and relatively few collectors - even fewer trying to get a complete set of anything, an ugly rarity might sell for 10% of the price of something popular and pretty. I really try not to look for wanted coins because my favorite purchases are things I previously did not know existed. medoraman and I collect along very similar lines but if we were to show 100 of our favorite coins, I doubt there would be much overlap.
Great thoughts as always Doug. The real sad truth of ancient collecting is the most expensive coins, (barring great rarities and the like), are high grade, common, "pretty" coins. A high grade Athens owl, even though tens of thousands exist, sell for hundreds of times what a scarce, historically important coin will. That is what I love, and many others here too. Finding a coin with more than meets the eye, which has historical importance in its imagery, is a relic of an important piece of history. There is always much more to learn. I bought a coin a few months back just because it had the Nabetean king on it, and I wanted it for my Nabatean set. I posted about it, and Doug let me know it was more important than that, it was the first time a Roman proclaimed his own deeds on a coin, and this led to Caesar's coinage proclaiming his victories. I had no idea, but now that coin is much more special to me. Its stories like that that make these things special. I will say it again, my favorite coin I own I got in a lot of 50 Byzantine bronzes for $40, and it grades at best VG. Its value is meaningless to me since I will never sell at any price, though it is a rarish coin. This is why I like this board, especially Doug's and Arditiron's posts. I love learning more about these coins, and the importance beyond the surface. I am in awe of beautiful coins as well, and am jealous of friends who can afford 5 figure coins regularly, but at any budget people can find important, historical, interesting coins.
