The following five dollars were graded by PCGS: 61, 63, 63, 64 and 66 These are the coins: 1878 7/8TF Morgan, 1878-CC Morgan, 1878-S Morgan, 1878-S Trade dollar, 1878 proof Trade dollar. Put them in order. This shouldn't be as challenging as the 1920s Lincolns posted recently. Answers Friday. Thanks for playing! Lance.
stunning coins!!! i love those trade dollars ... i still dont have one in my collection. cool cameo like toning on the 1878 Trade (coin #5) what causes those parallel scratch-like lines on that coin (i've seen other coins graded MS with similar parallel scratches) is the 1878-S Morgan (coin #3) the MS66? the MS66 must be either that one or the bottom trade dollar (but what are those scratches?) congrats on owning some great examples!
Thanks for the compliments, WL. I can't tell you the answers yet but I can say that the lines on the proof T$ are from die preparation. Lots of folks just call them die polish lines. The TPG's don't downgrade for them, as a rule, unless they're unsightly. I too love Trade dollars but they must be one of the most counterfeited series. Avoid them raw. Even if you want one raw for an album buy a graded one and crack it out (and save the cert!). Lance.
yes, the counterfeiting issues on the trades has definitely held me back. i saw a PCGS graded traded dollar last year that was a counterfeit coin in a counterfeit PCGS slab. Thanks for that info ... just so i understand ... are you saying the mint polishes every blank (or just some blanks) before a coin is minted? why do they do that? so die polish lines are differrent from flow lines ... flow lines are from the pressing of the coin and happen during minting ... and die polish lines are from over zealous mint employees that scrape on blanks to smooth them out before minting ... is that right? i remember when i first saw that line pattern on some coins and it made me think the coins were improperly cleaned (since it looked like someone scrubbed (scraped) the coin). i do know that the TPG's dont downgrade for these lines as I have seen many in slabs.
Sadly, this has happened with numerous series, not just T$'s. But the market place is rife with fake, raw T$'s. No. It's not about the blank or planchet. It's about the working die. Dies are "maintained". Sometimes they get damaged. Clashing, for example, where the dies meet without a planchet and design elements from one are impressed on the other. The Mint tries to repair such damage so it can continue using the die. ...and die polish lines are actually on the die and appear on all coins stamped from that die. They can usually be distinguished from cleaning hairlines because they do not cross devices, letters, numbers, etc. Anything incused on the working die (which yields raised details on coins) shouldn't have polish lines. For this same reason die polish lines are raised on a coin, though that can be hard to make out from pictures. Qualifier: Collectors often refer to the results of die maintenance as "polish lines" when in fact it may not technically be from polishing but from another aggressive treatment/tool. So, what's your guess on the '78 dollars? Lance.
I have to admit i am no grading expert! but I will guess this ... #1 = 63 #2 = 63 #3 = 64 #4 = 61 #5 = 66 how much did coint #5 cost you ... if I found one like it somewhere, i would have to think long and hard about buying it!
We have a winner! swhuck, WTG. I'm surprised there wasn't more interest. Too easy? Too hard? Too boring? I love these big silver dollars, though I admit Morgans are a little commonplace. Lance. 1878-S Morgan MS66 1878 Morgan MS64 1878-s T$ PR63 1878-cc Morgan MS63 1878 T$ MS61
I just saw this! Got 'em right, but confess I had asked you the grade of the MS Trade a few weeks ago (not that there's another 61 in the mix). BTW, you have the Trades reversed in your answer. Not sure why this didn't get more responses; these are usually popular. Thanks for the challenge.
not too easy or too boring ... but it would be nice if you explained why those grades were given (i for one would like to learn!)
If I might step in and do some of the work of answering (or at least add an opinion): the 78S is the cleanest; look at the cheek and the obv. fields. 78S's typically have good strikes and often have proof-like surfaces, the latter which can seem to show marks to be more severe than they actually are. The 78 7/8TF is relatively clean but the luster doesn't appear to be full enough to warrant a 65. The 78CC is even more marked up, warranting a comparative drop in grade. Many feel that grading companies are more lenient on CC's than on the others. However, this looks to me to be a pretty solid 63. The MS Trade Dollar is dinged up enough in the fields to be low-end MS; although when I first saw pictures of it a few weeks ago on another thread I had guessed a higher grade. It's a very attractive coin but technically the dings limit the grade. I don't collect proof coins and have no idea why this one is a 63! Lance, hope you don't mind I'm offering my 2 cents and am I missing anything?
oval, i find the 63 on the proof trade perplexing as well ... i thought that coin was stunning i wonder why it was downgraded? thanks for your explanation ... i learned a few things!
Argh! Oval_man is correct...that should be 1878 T$ PR63 and 1878-S T$ MS61. Darn...I was distracted by work and in a hurry. Lance.
Not at all, Oval-man. Great observations. The '78-S T$ MS61 has enough hits to limit the grade. Luster is out of the park, so I could see a 62. I looked a long time for this coin and am really happy with it. The proof trade is exceptional. Wonderful color I didn't capture in those photos. Blues and gold and red. Polish lines are drawn out in the photo and aren't that noticeable in hand. I resubmitted it, hoping for a bump but PCGS didn't bite. It's okay. Buy the coin, not the plastic or grade. I'm missing the '78-CC T$. Someday. They're a little pricey and tough to find in exceptional shape. Lance.
Coin 1 1878 Morgan-ms64 #2 1878 cc- ms63 #3 1878 s- ms66 #4 1878 s Trade ms63 #5 1878 Trade-Pf61 Nice group of dollars! I am really enjoying these posts.
