eBay rip of the month? 1920-S Walker...

I'm not sure why I even clicked on this one, since I've been mostly bottom-feeding for stuff below melt -- I have been paying a little more attention to semi-key Walkers lately.

1920-S Liberty Standing 1/2 dollar

The photo wasn't great, but just from the breast detail I figured it was a lock for VF at least, and these apparently get hard to come by at anything better than F. At $50, I decided to take a chance.

Here's what I got:





I'm kind of at a loss for words here.

This looks like at least a strong XF to me. The verbal/descriptive grading guides I've found don't clarify the difference between XF and AU, and PhotoGrade isn't helping much either. The luster is incredible on the reverse, especially the left wing, but also in the fields; on the obverse, it's more confused, with some haze in the field above In God We Trust, and an almost prooflike mirror effect below that motto. Under high magnification and oblique light, I see hairlines in the left and right obverse fields, leading me to fear that it's been wiped, but I can't be sure. When I first saw its color, I thought "dipped for sure" -- but that reverse luster is still incredible.

I'm also puzzled by whatever's going on above the 0 in the date. It almost looks like some weird overdate, but I don't think any are known for this issue.

I don't much like slabbing coins, but I'm sorely tempted to turn this one over to a TPG. I'd be very sad if it came back Details, but if it's got a shot at even AU50, that would just about double its value over EF40.

Any opinions or suggestions?

 

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Send her in, I think it may get AU, if that is a weak strike.

 

Wow, that's a great buy for $50.

 

If it has not been dipped or cleaned. And who is TPG? Why not NGC or PCGS?

 

TPG is any Third Party Grader...

And yes, if it has not been dipped or cleaned already.

 

Ahhhh. "TPG" Me Understand Now LOL I feel dumb but now I know. And how do you know that it has not been cleaned? Teach me.

 

Streaks, swirls, spots, evidence of scrubbing (hard and soft)... Cleaning a coin, when done right, will shine it up. Then, that cleaned area will turn dull and not a natural circulation dull.

Edit: In the end, cleaning is bad. Even when done "right".

 

Does anyone know how to tell if a coins been cleaned other then wasting time by sending it off to a TPG to find out that it has been? I understand finding swirl marks with my loop to indicate that it has been spun, but how can you tell if it has been dipped?

 

I don't know that it hasn't been cleaned; that's one reason I'm soliciting opinions here, although these photos won't shed much light on the issue. As I said, in strong light there are hairlines in the obverse fields, which may be a sign of wiping or cleaning. On the other hand, there's still strong luster, which cleaning usually destroys.

I took it out in direct sun this afternoon to check the obverse luster, and it's definitely there, although it's not the type of strong cartwheel you see on a Morgan dollar or a nice Kennedy half. I'm thinking it's even present on the head, which would imply a weakly-struck AU coin rather than an XF, but I'm way outside of my comfort zone on that call.

I haven't ever submitted a coin for grading, but this is definitely a prime candidate -- high potential value, high uncertainty on the grade, and high value differential between grades. I just wish I could be more confident that it wouldn't get Details.

 

Reviewing, I would say nice XF that has been dipped by someone with care. So it looks really clean, cleaner than you would expect given the wear on the normal hot spots. Luster is still good as the wear is not everywhere. This type of dip may classify as "restoration" more than cleaning when done well. May pass a TPG and be graded..but looks XF to me.

 

I'm looking at the star field on the flag on the obv. Not a fan of that area. ...

Yeah. It's all about seeing it in person.

 

Here is my thought. Ebay sucks for raw coins. If I buy from ebay it has to be certifed by the top two and have a good pic so that I can see the eye appeal. Unless you are very savvy dont buy from ebay. I think that buying a raw half ounce 90% siver coin at the cost of a one ounce silver melt coin is a little bit tricky. Unless it is a key date then I would take the chance. Is a 1920 walker a key date?

 

1921-P, D, S. Those are the key dates. Not sure on the 1920.

 

I have a number of certified walkers that were brought in on consignment all certifed by the top two. MS 62-66 There all spoken for. The oldest is a 1916. Most are in the 30s. Avarage value is around $150. 1937D is a good one to shoot for. I have it in MS64 and 65.

I also have a 1939 PR64 Walker. NICE!!!

A dealers cost on the 1937D in MS 65 and the 1939 PR64 both are at about $500 each

 

The 21's are more key, but for me, any non gold coin clearing $100 for XF (or some of the earliers over $100 by VF/F) is a key!

 

I'm a bargain-hunter. If my goal had been to buy an XF40 1920-S, yes, I would've insisted on an NGC or PCGS slab, and I would've paid through the nose for it.

Here's the Numismedia price list for Walkers:

http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/prices/wlkhlv/pricesgd.shtml

It lists the 1920-S at $25 in F12, $97 in VF20, $270 in XF40, and $510 in AU50.

Early Walkers do not come cheap in higher grades. The 1920-S appears to be around the middle of the pack.

I'd figure I'd made a good deal if this turns out to be VF20, although I'd rather not spring for a slab at that grade. But based on the skirt lines, the feathers, and the dripping luster, I'm thinking it might do much better than that. Weighing against it are the hairlines, the haze above the motto, and a few very small dings, especially on the reverse.

I wish I had a local dealer I could trust to render advice.

 

I wish you were close so you could come in and let us take a look.

 

Looks like a Chinese knock off...I hope I'm wrong.

 

What makes me suspicious is the porosity on the rim and the overall look. You be the judge.

I went back and re-read your post, this Chinese produced Walker has the same die marker on the 0 of the date.

 

I'd say the same thing. Date is wrong; even the designer's intitials are missing from the reverse as far as I can see.