It's a free market, I know... but the mint is now charging DOUBLE face value for the rolls of quarters. I wonder if the fact you can't get them at your local bank is playing a roll. Either way, too much IMHO.. It's like I kind of feel like we own the mint in a way, as US taxpayers, but maybe I'm wrong...
This has been said here many times before. Our tax dollars do not support the US Mint. With that said, I became disgusted with the US Mint's pricing policies several years ago. I used to have multiple subscriptions for the silver proof sets, clad proof sets, silver SQ proof sets, clad SQ proof sets, proof SAE's, proof and uncirculated Commems, Sac $250 bags, SQ rolls and Kennedy rolls. I was spending more than $5K a year. In 2005, if you wanted to buy one of every item the Mint offered, it would have cost you about $9K. In 2008, that figure jumped to about $18K. When the SQ program ended in 2008, I cancelled all of my subscriptions, and the only thing I've purchased from the Mint since then was some Sac rolls at face value on the Direct Ship program. Chris
However, wouldn't you agree that since a lot of the items used for the Mint products sold on their website is contracted out to different manufacturers, who raise their prices to Mint, that the Mint needs to pass that on to us, the consumer? After all, they need to stay in the black?
I do think some of teh products are high, but some are in line. Just look at e-bay, some go for more than the purchase price thru the mint. Some people, like me like to collect US mint rolls so because I am not in it to make money just for the enjoyment and collector side paying a premium is just part of that side of my hobby.
I realize, since they are self-supporting, that they must try to make a profit, but sometimes I think their greed carries it too far. For example, when the Mint came out with the 2005 American Legacy Set, it costed $135 and you got the Silver Proof Marine Corps & John Marshall $1 Commems ($35 each) with the Clad Proof Set ($22.95) which if purchased separately costed $92.95. So, you were paying $42.05 for the packaging! That is the most expensive cardboard I have ever seen! Chris
There's a bit more to it than just the packaging though. By law, the mint has to cover all expenses and still sell items at a profit. All those expenses include all the shipping from the mint to the companies that actually do the packaging and all of those companies' overhead expenses, all marketing and advertising, and all of the incidental expenses incurred by the mint itself. I know what you're saying and I don't really disagree. But we as consumers often forget everything that goes into (the costs) of running a business. The mint is just a business that is mandated by law to operate at a profit. The thing you and others are having a problem with is that you think that the amount of that profit is unfair. But is it really unfair, once all of the expenses are accounted for ?
I have four of them from the Mint. Based on your aftermarket price, I stand to lose at least $170, but the last time I checked, eBay sellers were having a hard time unloading them for $90, and dealers I know were offering no more than $80. Considering the current price of silver, I'd make more money selling the set for melt value. Read my lips US Mint! I'd love to be able to sell these for $100 each with free packaging. Chris
I understand what you're saying, Doug, but I think it should be the Mint's policy to make contracts with those suppliers and distribution agents who will not gouge the public. You know, it is still fresh in the minds of many people what happened with the 5 oz. ATB hockey pucks. You can't tell me that those suppliers and distribution agents aren't soaking the public, and the Mint does nothing about it. It's like the $200 toilet seats all over again. Chris
Absolutely! When the US Mint produces a quarter, it costs them less than 8 cents yet they recieve a 25 cent credit from the Federal Reserve Bank. Thats close to a 200% profit. http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_coins/index.cfm?action=faq_circulating_coin I would guess that shipping the coin to the rollers and packagers along with the paper to roll them and the cardboard and plastic to package them doesn't add more than a nickel per coin to that cost yet the collecting consumer is charged more than double face value for these coins. And let's talk about the ATB quarters for a second. When the Statehood Quarters came out, boxes specific to each state could be ordered by member Federal Reserve Banks upon the coins release. This made the "product" available to the public at face value by the box or roll. The America the Beautiful Quarters™ are run under different rules and as such member banks CANNOT order specific parks as they are released. The ONLY way to obtain a full roll of these coins at face value is either by attending the release ceremony or by getting "lucky" at the bank as the coins are released to member banks generically and most are mixed in with other coins. The US Mint has a "monopoly" on a ready availability of BU rolls and they are charging the collecting community a hefty premium to obtain them. That premium is a HUGE profit margin. As an after thought, I don;t believe for a second that the subcontractor (PBGS) that the US Mint uses actually "sets" the price for these products. They simply act as a warehouse that distributes the product as an official agent of the US Mint.
I got quite a few of my Silver sets way below Mint prices from a local dealer last year so when I can I get what I can get Mintwise from other sources.
Thats an excellent philosophy. But the downside that keeps me coming back is the opportunity to get these: For only $26 ea plus $4.95 S/H.
Chris, I gotta side with Doug on this one. Take the First Spouse series for instance...each coin has about $150 of markup over bullion. That seems like a lot, but when fewer than 10,000 coins are struck, the costs per coin add up. There's design, die fabrication, production costs such as the premium the Mint pays for planchet costs and production setup, facilities/management overhead, packaging, etc. ...it all adds up. "Economies of scale" reduce premiums on higher production coins which may make premiums of lower production coins seem outrageous, but they're really not. I really like the 3" (1/2 lbs) bronze medals the Mint produces! The Mint charges $42 each for them (that's a $40 markup...I wouldn't pay that!), but it tells me that they're not making very many of them (as evidenced by the high premium over bullion). They're probably a good deal when you can find them on eBay in the $15-$20 range. As for the AP (Approved Purchaser) bullion distribution network, I think they should be able to price their products anyway they see fit. With that said, they should never have been the distribution network for the ATB 5 Oz coins. Their purpose in life is to distribute high volumn bullion coins, not low mintage collectibles. You don't see them involved in the First Spouse bullions coins. If the Mint is only going to produce the ATB 5 ouncers in limited numbers, they should distribute them through the US Mint web site.
However, right now the largest expense is in the shipping, from contractors to the Mint. The cost of diesel fuel alone has been jacked and the trucking companies have passed that on to their customers. There are other increases in cost of manufacturing as well, all has to be passed down the line.
If one thinks the U.S. Mint offerings are over-priced, simply don't buy them from the Mint and wait until they reach the secondary markets. The Mint needs to be financially operated as any financial responsible business does.
You're referring to three very limited-production items. You can't use just those items to justify the increases across the board for everything, and the bronze medals is a very poor example. Six or seven years ago, they were $7.95, and it isn't even a precious metal. Chris
Well Chris you can consider this then. The total profit margin for ALL bullion releated products in 2010 was 1.9%. The highest it's been in the past 5 years is 2.3%. Hardly what I would call gouging anybody. The profit margin for ALL numismatic products in 2010 was 12.1%. Again, hardly out of line for any business. Now on the items produced for circulation and actually delivered to the FRB, the mint made 49 cents out of every dollar issued. The lowest it's been out of the last 5 years. That should give you an idea of what it actually costs to produce coinage of all kinds. And if you don't believe me, you can read it for yourself right here - http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/about/annual_report/2010AnnualReport.pdf
I was just using the First Spouse series as an example...and I agree with you that $42 for the 3" bronze medals is way too high (I was using the logic in reverse to guess at their mintages...which I can't find published anywhere). The APs are in business to make money and the Mint products they sell are supposed to "be available in numbers to meet demand"...which means they'll go out of business if they're not price competitive. That's exactly the reason they shouldn't be involved (imo) with the distribution of any products that won't be produced in unlimited numbers to satisfy demand...such as the ATB 5 Oz disks. As far as sets like the Legacy series is concerned, I think that's what Congress was referring to when they said the Mint shouldn't be in the business of creating/selling "contrived" rarities.
