CPM9BALL why did the moderator close our thread we were communicating on? I didn't see anything we were doing wrong and I told the posters it was ok about what they were saying. Here's some photos so that you can see how much this coin is the same dia meter as a regular one. I hope this talk forum don't go out of business because of management problems like another one looking like it may do . these talk forums are great for new collectors to learn about error coins.
They're not the same diameter. Even as blind as I am, I can see a slight bulge at 3:00 o'clock on your PMD coin. Chris
Chris what is confusing you is the shadow in the photo in this area plus the hollowed out place in the rim is helping to confuse you. all that is left of the rim in this area is a super thin shell of it and the coin is idenical in diameter in this area. if you look closely at only the outside part of the rim in this area and go counterclockwise you can easily see it is the same diameter here as the regular part of the coin. where the diameter of the top half of the coin is smaller starts at the T in trust and goes over to near this thin flange. this is what makes it look like something got caught in between the top half of the coin and the collar before the die struck it. I hope the moderator will leave us along and let us discuss this coin. If he wants to do something then why not just remove the posts that are bad instead of our entire thread? it is easy to remove a single post.
The shadow isn't confusing me at all. Get a pair of calipers and measure the coin at three or four different places (which includes this spot) and tell me I'm wrong. Chris
I closed the previous thread you are talking about. I did not delete it. I closed it as the posts were getting more on individuals than the coin. I also considered the original question answered as well as it could be, and any further postings most likely would deal with personalities. Stick with the coin and you will have no problem. Jim
Chris I don't need to measure this coin anymore and I already know you are definately wrong but I'm not going to hold it against you because all you are looking at is a image.Anyway There is no possible way the coin could be larger in diameter because the retaining collar was in place when this coin was made. like I have said over and over if this coin had been damaged outside of the mint the reverse side would have to show at least a few scratches or a pushed down letter. It is impossible to do a coin like this in mid air, it had to have been still been sitting in the reverse die and using the die as support. what may be confusing you in my photo is that the thin flange is down a little lower than the rim of the coin but definately not pushed out at all.I sure do thank you anyway for helping me with this coin. I'm almost positive we may be to finally figure it out but it sure is a tough one.
Thanks Jim and I really appreciate your reply. are there some way you can just remove one post at the time instead of closing the entire thread? I think it is important to talk about error coins and try to learn new things.
i know i am just going to be told i am wrong with this but i will say it anyway. the face and hair shows, if not pmd, a very weak strike. but the thing is there is no corrasponding weakness on the reverse like i would expect to see. that is what realy makes me think it cant be an error
I'm not confused. Your image is fine. You haven't proven that it was produced like this in the coining chamber. If you measured it and I'm right, you would have to admit that it wasn't produced in the coining chamber because the retaining collar would not allow the coin to expand out of round even 1/100th of a mm. That would throw your theory right out the window. So, get some calipers and measure it and prove me wrong. The mere fact that you are claiming what happened isn't proof. There is one other alternative. If you're such good friends with John Wexler, then why don't you send it to him for his analysis? Then, when you get it back, please post a photo or scan of his letter with the results. Chris
Of course it is important to learn new things, but such must occur in a respectful and directional way. If the OP asks a question, I expect the following posters to be respectful and submit their opinions in such a manner. I also expect the OP to accept opinions as such when they are asked or expected. I do not expect the OP to blow off the responder with comments as to why they are wrong and become argumentative. If you don't like their opinion, say thank you or ignore it. When a poster seems like they just wish to have an argument for argument sake, no one learns anything, and it is time to stop the thread. I will delete or edit single posts if they cross over the line, but if the thread is headed in a direction of the above I mention, the whole thread will be closed. If you mean what you say as to wanting discussion, try considering my advice in the first paragraph. Jim
Jim I have only been on here for a short time and I have already come to the same conclusion as your advice suggests. you can go back and look I have learned to not reply to the ones that were just on here to poke fun. I'm not trying to argue with CPM9BALL either , me and him were just discussing my odd ball coin but I can see this is going no where and I should have not been replying to him so much after seeing how it was going.. if I have to say thank you every time someone tells a big joke or talks bad to me and others about every photo put on here then I don't see where the forum will be much of a help to anyone.It would be good if you could suspend a few of these folks that are just getting on your forum just to make fun of folks for a few days and straighten them up and stop the name calling. This is just my opinion.
If your coin was indeed in the collar as you suggest....please explain the rim damage in numerous spots......the rim would be protected some what by the collar.........................
Thanks for your reply . the rim was protected by the collar in every place except the small section of the top half of the coin from the T in trust and going counter clockwise in my photo over to near where the thin flange which is the outer part of the rim sticks up. I can easily see and you can also in one of my photos that something sharp clipped the top half of the coin off in this area before the strike and now part of the clip is filled in from the metal being pushed over into this small area by the die. If I could not see the clipped area I would suspect that something had become lodged between the coin's rim and the collar before it was struck and pushed the coin's metal towarde the center because this is what it looks like. since the clipped area is easy to see then I have ruled this out because the clip would account for this area being smaller in diameter at the top part of the coin. all the rest of the coins rim is in perfect shape except this small area from the T in trust over to near the raised up flange of the top 1/3 or 1/2 of the top of the rim.If I can figure this one out it may be one of our most unusal coins ever.
Again??? Seriously? PMD and definately not the same diameter. End of discussion. There's a reason the other thread was closed. He said it himself...
I'm replying to this post in hopes of maybe being able to help folks learn more about error coins. If this coin had even a tiny bit of corresponding weakness on the reverse side it would have instantly been thrown in the trash. If anyone finds a coin that has damage or distortion on both sides this proves it is probably a fake , altered or post mint damaged coin unless it is something like a weak strike or both dies filled up at the same time.. If someone or something pushes or presses something into one side of a coin that is not resting in a coin die this will also without a doubt damage the other side of the coin. I hope this information will help someone that reads it.
