Do I have to legally return the money?? Help!!!! Am I Going to Jail?

lol

 

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Typically they'll run a resistance test to determine finess of silver. But the bottom line is clear to me, you are not obligated to hold a dealers hand and help them do their buying and selling. You came in as a lay person selling coins, they bought your coins, end of the story. They will contact their lawyer and he will tell them they have no legal standing to force you to return the money, it's a caveat emptor business and of all people they should have known better. What you choose to do to help this buyer is of your own free will, you cannot be forced to do anything you do not want to do.

 

I agree with you however what about the unjustly enriched laws, how do thoses afect me.

 

Were you "unjustly enriched"? I could make a solid argument that you were not. You brought them a product, they liked it and asked for more, you brought them more and they bought it. End of story. The coins you sold them are still coins, that has not changed. You did not explicatly advertise to them that these coins were indeed solid silver, rather you came to them and asked their judgment on these coins. You provided them with Chinese coins, which they are, and regardless of their later findings, they are still coins from China. You did not misrepresent them nor did you mislead them, rather you came to them and relied solely on their judgment. No judge in this country would allow this case to go to trial. It's caveat emptor, plain and simple.
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China is flooding the market with counterfeit U.S. coins, bullion, antiques and what ever they can profit from. China does not allow the export of Chinese antiquities so the Chinese have become masters at counterfeiting. So buyer beware..use common sense, if it sounds to good to be true, it usually is not.

 

Are you a ****in lawyer man, jesus christ man that was good!

 

WOW are you some kind of super lawyer man! you seem to know what you are talking about!

 

I will repeat - please see a lawyer. There was a thread on here earlier about a shop accepting counterfeit coins/bullion. My memory is that the seller lost. However, in your case, I believe you could say you you relied on their promise to buy for the second lot. I know of no lawyers here, so I repeat - see a lawyer, please.

 

You're talking about the counterfeit 1916-D. IIRC, nothing ever came of that, the dealer gave up.

 

Hmmm... Nevek, what state are you in? I know some states and some municipalities hold ALL companies that deal with bullion under the pawnbroker (second hand precious metal dealer) laws. This would apply to foreign exchanges and coin stores too. In Hawaii, that law precludes any business that purchases bullion from selling said bullion until a certain amount of time clears. The purpose of this law is to prevent the sale of stolen goods and other fraudulent activities.

Many times the buyer is required to keep discernable records of inventory (descriptions or photos), as well as the individual (driver license photocopy and descriptions), when making a purchase.

That said, I have issues all over with this:

1) How much time passed between the first purchase (@$35 per Panda) and the second? I ask this for one simple reason: Shipping from China. I'm not sure about everyone else, but each time that I've dealt with an order from China, it's taken nearly a month to arrive. (I purchase electronics from China regularly.) I would NEVER buy bullion if I had to wait longer than a week for settlement. The opportunity cost and market risk over the course of five business days precludes MOST investments from having a settlement/delivery period of that long.

So, again, I ask, when did each of the four transactions occur?

2) Why is the store owner asking a refund on 170 coins ? A coin store selling 70 pandas in one day is pretty huge, unless they're a really high volume store (which I doubt since they didn't have cash on hand in the vault to pay $8k). So, how is a low-volume store selling 70 coins in one day? I'm thinking what happened was they had someone offer to buy pandas at $40 each, but that individual decided they only wanted 70 of them. When he couldn't sell the other 170, he had buyer's remorse. Pretty simple.

3) Why is a store issuing what effectively ammounts to a post-dated check? If it were my store (and for some reason, I had just made a $25,000 purchase to preclude me from having cash on hand), I would have asked you to return later in the day so that I would have the cash necessary to complete the transaction.

Now, here's what I'd do: I'd contact an attorney, as well as the local government agency that supervises secondhand precious metals dealers. If the store owner is threatening to have you turned into the authorities, it's likely that (s)he should be aware that a law was broken by selling the 70-odd coins, as well (assuming your state/municapality has such laws). Again, just my thoughts.

 

Thank you very much for your thoughts. there were only two deals, the first one was for 20 coin and they sold within 20 minits they said, the last order was for 240 and it was one week later. they sold 50 from the second batch before "relizing" they were fake. I asked them what they were going to do about the coin they sold and they said their was nothing they could do. my first thought was well then Im not sure if there is anything I can do. the thing that worries me most about all this, is I am sure they know and understand the laws serounding their own business better then I do. I am sure there is something that I am unaware of. at first I was really sorry and they were demanding money that day, when I told them no the demanded the title to my car, after that I did a little research and told her "I don't owe you any money." and that did change her tone from demanding to please help me. later on when I told her that there very well maybe nothing I can do she jumped right back into the threts! WTF...

 

A hit like that could put a small fry out of business.

So you ordered 240 pieces from China and got it within a week? I'm impressed.

 

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire.

 

Yep Dutchman, but its very expensive. For that many probaly around $125 shipping.

 

Ya it all happend with 8 days

 

Just change the name "coins" to "used cars" and change "coin shop' to "used car lot". Can you ever imagine a used car dealer who bought your car last week coming to you and demanding their money back because you sold them a lemon? I certainly can't. The used car dealer is the expert in the field of used cars and therefor can not hold you to a standard greater than they hold themselves. He can yell at you, he can make threats, he can claim he'll take you to court, he can do anything he thinks of to try to get your to give him money but at the end of the day he has no leg to stand on. But please do not take my word for it, call one of the thousands of lawyers in your city that will take your call and ask them what, if any, obligation you may have in this transaction.

 

Ordered a pair of nice, but fake hockey jerseys from China. They were on my doorstep in 5 days. Big business moving all the counterfeit crap from China to the US these days...

 

+1 :thumb:

I feel bad for the coin shop, but that is their fault and you should not be involved in helping them fix a problem they made for themselves. There was no intent to deceive, lie, or defraud the shop on your end, and by making them do the silver test you gave them an opportunity to make sure what they were buying was legitimate. When you sold it to the shop, did they give you any paperwork or fine print to read or anything to sign at all? If they did, and that document doesn't have anything pertaining to you having to forfeit the money if the item turns out to be fake, then that's it.

 

I cannot believe the advice you are getting on this board. Man, (or woman, whichever) Do the right thing! You got "took", they got "took"; learn from this. What, in the end, lets you sleep at night feeling good about yourself?

This shop owner, selling so many of the fake coins without realizing it, now has to find a way to do the right thing for her customers, if she knows who they are.. If any happened to be regular customers/clients, you can bet she'll make it right with them. Most in business know that word of mouth do great harm in a situation like this; she has greater problems to solve now than you do.

As many have said here, get legal advice. And even, regardless of legal advice, or even with legal advice, you still have to live with the results of your actions.

If I personally had that happen to me, and I know I would not want that attached to my name, I would be finding out how to make the best deal I could with her. You don't have the money? Well, work a deal. Maybe a 50% deal -- 50 % of the coins, and 50% of the cash. Then I'd sell them as "imitations". Take the hit, learn the lesson, and keep my name AND my head held high. I might even volunteer to help her (and myself) to become the best silver tester going. That's just me.

By the way, wielding a gun is NEVER a good idea for persuasion. And in fact you could find yourself in woohoo big trouble.

Get legal advice.

Good luck.
Lucy

 

Easy to say when your not the one that could lose $7,000.00 becuase an "expert" told you they were real and would buy as many as you could get. I would disagree with you when you said she has more to deal with, her shop/experts were the ones in the wrong not me, why should I have to suffer in ANY way shape or form. I feel bad for her but at the same time, bad choices have conaquences and she can't expect people to fix her problems.