America the beautiful set observation. Your thoughts?

There has been alot of dissatisfaction in the major numismatic media
over the lack of availability of the ATB sets through primary channels,
and that the secondary market is charging obscene premiums.
Numismatic news published a list of the primary channels who are the
main buyers and distributors for the mint of these commems.
Did anybody find it strange that prudential and fidelitrade were on the list?
The nations biggest banks and insurance companies get the coins befote collectors do?
and the mint wonders why they lost 30% of their.customer base.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Yes. I find it strange, ironic, and filthy.

I REALLY wanted this set, but now REFUSE to pursue or purchase. I have essentially boycotted the whole idea and it's participants.

 

There's nothing particularly strange about it when you consider that the version you're talking about is supposed to simply be a bullion coin. Therefore it was sold through the same Authorized Purchasers (APs) as American Silver and Gold Eagle bullion coins are sold - Prudential and Fidelitrade being 2 of the 11 APs. The 2010 bullion version had a limited production run which has made it an instant collector piece, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still designated as a bullion coin.

The collector versions of these 2010 coins are supposed to go on sale direct from the U.S. Mint to individuals during Q1 2011, however with a week to go there has been no information about that so it's probably safe to assume that we're looking at Q2 2011.

The 2011 bullion versions are being released one at a time, starting in April 2011 with the Gettysburg National Military Park coin. Supposedly there are 125,000 of each 2011 coin available rather than the 33,000 of each coin that were available for 2010. The 2011 bullion coins will still be sold through the AP network.

(Edited to add: Not excusing what I feel was botched handling of the 2010 bullion coins once The Mint knew that they had created an instant numismatic "rarity" of sorts. Just explaining why the coins were sold through the AP network).

 

No offense Speedie, but you answered a question that wasn't asked. We are very well aware of excuse/reason WHY................doesn't make it right. And is also why when the current silver fad is over, all the numismatic bullion will be able to be purchased at no premium whatsoever. Lets just hope these bullion buyers keep good care of their coins.

 

Seems like I answered the exact question that was posed by the OP, but ok...

 

I was reading a bit more into the whole post. My big question would be why banks and insurance companies get the inside track on coin collecting instead of directly to the consumer "collector"?

It's like dealing with Ticket Master.......introduce a middle man to shuffle the merchandise and prices get jacked up.

""""The nations biggest banks and insurance companies get the coins before collectors do?
and the mint wonders why they lost 30% of their.customer base.""""

 

Legally Required

That is WHY and yes it is right per the laws written. Many don't like it, but I don't like to drive my sports car 55 mph either. Everyone is blaming the Mint, but the Mint was put in handcuffs by our elected politicians. All I can say is vote differently!

The companies that are AP's are large scale investment houses, part of companies that are also banks and insurance companies. They are the chosen channel to distribute precious metals....been that way for years.

 

:thumb:

 

The answer gets a lot more complicated than Legally Required. Yes, that's the simple dirty answer, but many things were/are botched in this process. I'm a little more passionate about this process than most for personal reasons, but I'm also not going to write a dissertation on a COIN forum.

My main argument has more to do with the definition of BULLION vs Numismatics. When the Mint produces a "product" intended for numismatists AND/OR bullion investment FOR the American PEOPLE, the cost should not be MULTIPLE times it's bullion value by the time it gets to those PEOPLE.

There ARE legal ways to make this better TODAY. The problems are laziness, government crap politics (that go beyond what you mentioned) and greed.

Lastly, I can LEGALLY have a "relationship" with another mans wife, but that doesn't make it right does it?

The powers that be can CHOOSE not to screw the numismatist OR the American people!

 

There was no conspiracy here.

Legal rules, including the manufacturing requirements of these coins, created the issues at hand. There was no intention of creating a product that would sky rocket, but the technology limitations and deadlines forced limited production (supply and demand rules apply)

The mint did what is was legally required to do. It did its best to get the "bullion" into the market at bullion prices by more clearly defining the definition of "reasonable markup" to the distribution channel and also forced that channel to eliminate layers to avoid middleman fees as much as possible. (their efforts here were so focused on the American people, it created concerns with many business principles like price fixing).

Remember, these are bullion, so not considered numismatic product. The collector versions will be released later this year.

The aftermarket/collector market is where things went nuts. NOT the mints fault. Try shopping the AP's. Fidelitrade has this product listed on their website, right now, for $929.20 for a full set ($37.17 per ounce). That is under the spot value of silver today, but it is the agreed price from US Silver Bullion at time of release. That is not getting the product to the PEOPLE at multiples.

Fidelitrade has a rigorous process to ensure one set per household...they are doing the best they can and better than most when ensuring people do not go around the system. However, people are trying to bypass the system...again, not the MINTS fault.

If you are looking at the aftermarket as the judge of initial price points...well, that would explain a lot. The direct sources are available to the entire public, communicated openly, and fair application to all...so again, no conspiracy in this...just legal issues that created limited supply and the Mint trying its best to be fair to the people, not enabling companies to gouge due to supply shortage.

P.S. I do not work for the mint or any AP...just been involved in this from the start, watching it roll out, and as a business person looking for the root cause of the problem....every time I look, every angle I look from, it all comes back to the law, as written and signed by politicians....not business people, not investors, not manufacturers of coins, not collectors....politicians

 

I stand corrected.

Everything is perfect and fair with everyone doing EVERYTHING THEY CAN, no one has any problems whatsoever. I hear ya. It's everyone else's fault.

You're also correct in they have absolutely NO numismatic value whatsoever.

 

True, and an absolute steal given both the secondary market price that these sets are fetching and that it's US Mint silver bullion delivered to your door for less than spot. Coins N Things are releasing more sets on 4/2/2011 and Apmex are still sitting on a bunch. I'm not really sure what's driving some of the hostility when the sets from FT have been on offer for more than a month now with just a form and a check required.

 

There is NO fault. It is market reaction to limited supply with bullion market players doing as expected/legally required and after market / collectors creating numismatic premiums....normal stuff for a product with these fundamentals....NO FAULT

To the question of "what created large numismatic premiums", the answer is the legal requirements created by politicians forced the mint to limit supply due to technological and timing constraints.

 

It is unconsciencable that the hockey puck program has gotten to this point. I would love to own one but it is way, way overpriced. I'm hoping that the mint sells them directly to us collectors this year. Let's get the middle man out of this one. The coin was created for collectors but it is now outside most of our reaches. What a shame!

 

As noted above, you can buy a set direct from an Authorized Purchaser (Fidelitrade) for less than the spot value of the silver. The collector version will be sold direct by The Mint, but they won't be selling for less than spot either.

 

The coins are available below spot today....that is like giving money with the coins...guess we should thank the mint for that "unconsciencable " situation.

 

Also now available at Jack Hunt for $949 including S&H.

 

Is Jack Hunt an AP?

 

Yes, they're one of the eleven.