I just bought a set of 2007 presidential dollars PF 70, and used the pcgs guide to value them. However, I bought NGC graded coins and they are much less than the pcgs. My ignorance in collecting coins(I'm literally 1-2wks into this) made me believe that all companies would be within a reasonable amount of one another. And I was curious if anyone knew if I am sort of out of luck for buying them NGC(when they are priced lower). Will NGC eventually meet the PCGS prices? How does that work? I realize these are probably very simple and very common sense type questions, but please enlighten me. Thanks!
Welcome to CT!! First of let me say that the following is just my opinion and should be taken as so. Hopefully many others will give you there opinions also. Thats what makes CT so great.I think your on the right track buying from the top grading companies as a new collector. I would suggest that you buy coins that you really enjoy as a collector. All modern coins can be bought at a fraction of a price in lower grades as MS68, MS69 compared to the pricey MS70 coins you purchased and very few could tell the difference in them therfore many buyers will opt for the cheaper coin. Simply the amount of modern coins produced and graded as MS70 coins cause many to doubt (myself included) that buyers of these coins will ever see a profit. Buying coins from NGC and PCGS are great ways to purchase nice coins but be sure to buy the coin for yourself and not because it is in their holder with their name on it. If you are more into investing than collecting as a hobby I would look into studying up on precious medals(gold and silver) as possible avenues. The presidential dollars are numerous in MS70 and contain no precious metal. I dont think any of them will hold much value in the long run for those reasons. IMO MS70 is way overated and should be left alone.
Welcome to CoinTalk and the hobby, New. I agree completely with BaldSpartan. In general, modern MS-70 coins are WAY overrated and WAY overpriced. NGC is one of the top two most respected TPGs but whatever you paid for your MS-70 coins is probably more than you can ever sell them for. You can buy MS-68 and MS-69 coins for a fraction of the cost of an MS-70 coin. If you cannot see the difference between an MS-68 and an MS-70 why should you pay a high premium for the things you cannot even see?
If I were to sell them, would it be unethical to look at PCGS prices and kind of go off that? I'm not planning on selling anytime soon(this is a long term investment, and for fun), but would you be very leery if someone tried to sell NGC coins at PCSG prices? maybe that's a better way of asking. Also, is buying PF or PR 70 Silver Eagles wiser than buying lesser graded coins, investment wise? And thanks for the advice you all have given, I could use all I can get. I want to be smart about this.
In terms of Silver Eagles, silver is the investment so if someone is only looking for silver, they wouldn't want to pay for a high grade coin, in fact they may even try to find low grade or almost "junk" silver so that the numismatic value does not drive the price too far over melt value. These are coins however, so in terms of coins, a higher grade will be more valuable. Silver Eagles are kind of a double investment because they have the price of silver content, so they will never be worth any less than that, but they also have a numismatice value, which in some cases can make them more valuable than just bullion. So in other words if you are only looking at the silver investment aspect than why would you pay more for a 70 grade? Silver is still silver regardless of numismatic grade.
Well, I figured silver eagles would appeal to a larger group of people if I bought higher quality. Is that not the case? I do buy bullion as well at market value, though. That is strictly investment.
I'm still a little new at the slab game. I am curious though. I've seen lots of advise to stay away from 70's yet there seems to be a never ending supply being sold on Ebay for example. Are these profits one and done...forever? I also get conflicting advise to always buy the highest grade you can afford, is that only true for classics? Edit: To keep with the OP I have been considering a Proof 70 Lincoln as I'm collecting the highest grade Lincoln collection I can. I dunno, just something about knowing that you have the best you can
I will only buy a P70 when the cost equals a P69. Yes, they can be found occasionally. I use the NGC price guide as a realistic rough estimate and ignore the PCGS guide. Heritage is where I go to get a better feel for pricing.
For Modern Coins, the PCGS Price Guide is no where near reality especially with regard to PR70DCAM Proofs which appear to be given out on a sliding scale instead of actually achieving the grade. Since NGC has their own published Price Guide, I would never consider an NGC coin being offered at PCGS prices since PCGS Modern coins ALWAYS bring higher prices than their NGC counterparts. IMO, Silver Eagle PR70 coins are a much better "investment" tool since they are made from a price fluctuating precious metal. It's also my opinion that "investing" in Presidential Proof Dollars is a very bad idea since the financial failure of these coins will most certainly taint the fun factor in buying them. As any good investment advisor will tell you, you must do your homework on what you invest your time and money in BEFORE actually buying andI could almost guarantee that you will never, ever realize the price you've paid for your PR70DCAM's in five years. What did you pay anyway? (Since nobody has asked.)
EMPHATIC YES! PR70DCAM Proof coins are literally a dime a dozen and the ONLY folks that realize substantial profits are those offering the "first available" or "first on the market coins". Subsequent offerings ALWAYS bring lower prices! ALWAYS! Modern Proof coins in PR70DCAM are a LOUSY INVESTMENT. Especially from around 1990 when populations began reaching "hundreds of coins". The exception are varieties in proofs but even those are susceptible to dramatic price drops. Rarely, if at all, do prices increase.
Thanks, I'm a little red faced . I bought an MS70 and a PF70 2009 Lincoln Commemorative Silver Dollar pair a couple of months ago. They are the only slabbed coins I have. I paid $249 for the pair. I regret it a little bit but at the same time I'd feel a little unfinished with 69 slabs. I think I'd rather just have the Gov issued presentation than a 69. I got some flawless proof 2010 silver eagles from the mint and am happy with those in the mint packaging. Having the Lincoln 70's though feels like an accomplishment...I don't know why.
Don't feel embarrased over your "Commemorative" coin purchase since my remarks are mainly aimed at Modern "circulating" Proof Coins and not necessarily Proof Commemorative coins which can and sometimes do command premiums due to low production volumes. Look at the 2001 Silver Buffalo Uncirculated commemorative! It's many multiples of value over its original issue price due to its design popularity AND ts relatively low mintages. Proof Set coins on the other hand are made by the Millions. My advice for modern proof coins is NOT to by the best grade you can afford but INSTEAD shop around for the absolute cheapest coin you can afford in the highest grade. If you want to extend into the PR70DCAM arena and can afford it then by all means, get-er done! But, don't expect a price increase over the long run since it just isn' going to happen. Sure, anything is possible but historically speaking, it won;t happen. I myself have purchased PR70DCAM Kennedy's which sold, in open bidding, for less than HALF of priceguide values. One, in fact, had a price guide value of $350 which I picked up, in open bidding, for a mere $88.09! Since these purchases were registry set motivated, I certainly won' kick myself too hard when/if they get sold at one fourth of price guide value since I was well aware of this going into the bidding. Folks are certainly welcome to collect whatever they want in whatever grade they want but when they ask if it's a "good investment", for modern proof coins the answer will always be no. Shop Smart and ignore the never ending supply of seller hype by understanding that any Modern Proof coin, regardless of grade, that is readily available by the hundreds on any given day will NOT increase in price over the long run and is a very bad Investment. As a matter of fact, coins themselves can be very bad investment material unless you know what you are doing and when to do it. These folks are usually called short term flippers.
Wow, you just made me feel stupid. hehe Not that you meant to, but I am glad I read this before buying any more proof 70 coins.
Yes and no. Like I said someone looking for strictly bullion won't care if it's PF70. They want the silver. As long as the whole coin is intact and isn't realy worn they will buy it for silver. If someone is strictly looking for coin then they may appreciate the higher quality, but as many said PF69 and 68 is alot cheaper and alot of experienced collectors realize this. So it may appeal to more and it may not. I guess it depends on the audience. There may be some that are looking at it both ways, but I would expect they would probably still buy less than PF70 because of cost.
My advice? Nutshell......don't invest in coins. Too dang hard to get your money back. Oh sure, sometimes the hype at the beginning of the release of an issue will sell like gang busters but after all the "hype" dies back, the coin winds up (many times) going for less than the original mint issue price. Grading of moderns does not gaurantee a high return. I call it splitting hairs with otherwise common coins. They're minted in the millions upon millions. If you had the forsight to put a little silver away a few years ago then you stand to make some money in todays market. Buying now, you pay more, and you're gonna have to hold it in hopes that the silver market is going to continue to track higher. Bumpy, uneven road ahead. We live in interesting times......
My advice: Sell those coins ASAP. Take the money, and buy the entire 2007-11 set in DCAM. Might be cheaper. MS70 coins are like FDOI (First Day of Issue), overrated.
