Sold on ebay, full disclosure & pics.....

However, the buyer took this item to an expert for authentication and it was determined not to be an error at all, hence the reason Tukas must refund the money.

BTB, Tukas', aka harrysmom_60103, title for the listing.

Test Strike? Error Coin Penny Lincoln 1980 Nickle

I rest my case.

 

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I know what uncertified means.

I also know a scammer when I see one.

Welcome to the forum scammer!

 

I cant believe this thread is still going on lol

 

Buncirculated I understand your logic, and I do agree that is the way things 'should be' and of course this specific topic hits close to home as it is a passionate hobby of ours. Let us put this situation into another category though, a vehicle for instance. Certain Chevelles came out in a 6 cyl version others in the SS v8 platform. If a car goes to auction and the seller produces all records of what the machine is to the best of their knowledge including allowing the buyer to inspect (photographs in regards to the coin) and offers the car at an extremely low price (lets say scrap value since the penny was opened at a penny - face value) and the buyer jumps in at the last minute and does not take advantage of the ability to investigate or scrutinize - then pays the SS value rather than the 6 cyl value - should they be entitled to their money back when they take it to an expert who tells them they over paid? Absolutely not.

In the court system they would have to prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the seller knowingly attempted to defraud the consumer. They have already hashed that out and many have agreed that was not the case. Although ebay negotiates these issues without the use of a court system this could still be placed into a civil litigation in which case the legal system would more than likely side with the seller. Check the The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 200 - it designates that

• you must give consumers clear information including details of the goods or services offered, delivery arrangements and payment, the supplier's details and the consumer's cancellation right before they buy (known as prior information)
• you must also provide this information in writing
• the consumer has a cooling-off period of seven working days.

As long as those 3 things were followed, seller is in the right - you can not make educated purchases for the consumer only they can do that for themselves.

Like I said before, in a perfect world 'Oh I made a mistake, let me get a do over' would be great but in this situation the facts out weigh the desires.

 

You might want to mke sure you give correct information.

Actually Ebay/Paypal HAS the right to take funds from your paypal account for a refund. If your paypal account is at $0, paypal CANNOT take from your personal bank account for a refund. Instead your paypal account goes to a negative and you can no longer use the paypal account until it is brought up to $0+.

As to this other issue with the coin.

It doesn't matter what you think the coin is or not. It all comes down to what the buyer thinks it is. The buyer thinks it is a fake and wants a refund. Ebay/Paypal will issue a refund

Ebay doesn't care if you say in your listing ....NO REFUNDS. If the buyer isn't happy with the item, they will get their refund.

Ebay also doesn't care if a buyer reads the description or not and just bids blindly, again if the buyer isn't happy with it, they will get their refund.

As almost eveyone has said, Ebay favors the buyer.

 

onejinx I do agree and I also pointed out that ebay will favor the buyer.

Also my facts are correct - ebay does not have the legal standing to withdraw funds from your account (I just won a civil litigation on this very issue about 2 months ago, hence why I am speaking at the great lengths I am on this subject). I ended up having to sue ebay directly for the unauthorized removal of funds - that is federal larceny since the funds cross state lines and the funds were removed from a private account without the explicit authorization of the account holder - People just choose to hang their head low, get walked over and not fight for what is right and proper. It was also proven in my specific case that anything within the listing is considered a portion of the contract the buyer accepts when placing a bid - so no refunds in the description is a legally binding aspect to the contract. Period.

As far as 'it doesn't matter what you think the coin is or not' is beyond ludicrous for you to say - if you make an uneducated purchase and then become educated does that change the fact that the item is still as it was previously? Just because someone becomes enlightened, realizes their mistake does not give them a free pass to back track.

 

If you reread the part I quoted from your post....you wrote ..."If you have the funds removed from your paypal or personal account,.."

Ebay/Paypal can remove from your Paypal account for a refund. Which is what i posted above
But they CANNOT from your personal bank account.

 

So if buy from a seller (person/dealer/friend) and discover when you get it in hand that it is a fake, you won't try to get your money back

 

I 100% understand what you were saying onejinx - but I don't think your listening to me.

Per the legal definition of personal accounts - Ledger accounts that record transactions with individuals as debtors or creditors.

Just because paypal may not be a persons main personal checking or savings account it is still a personal account by definition in which they add, withdraw and save funds. These accounts are no different than your personal financial institution and the federal laws they need to follow.

When the smoke clears, without a court order it is illegal for ANYONE to remove or adjust funds without the explicit written consent of the owner of those funds.


EDIT: To answer your question, if I made an uneducated purchase and then realize I did such - no I would be stuck with it (happened to me with a 1 oz '100 mill' bar I overpaid for) and as you all have said 'write it off to a learning experience'. Now - on the flip - if I knew for a fact that the item was misrepresented or specifically kept details that would allow me an educated purchase - which in this situation that is not the case - then yes I would pursue the most direct avenue to rectify the situation.

 

Yes it is BUT not 100% eBay favor the reality the FACT if she escalate the case and fight for it she might able to win. Escalate the Case wait for the final decission Like what I did to one BUYER left for a 2 NEGATIVE FEEDBACK on me and asking for a Full REFUND and HE NEVER GET a Single cent for a REFUND.I won but eBay can not do anything to delete the 2 Negative feedback on me.

Here is one EXAMPLE :

 

That's great and terrible at the same time! Wow. I'm glad you were able to fight it and win but I wish they would follow full circle and remove the negative feedback that now is on your account. I am unfamiliar with feedback disputes - have they given any further information or line of recourse for you?

 

eBay will remove the NEGATIVE FEEDBACK with court order. And some of the majority advised do not go after and filed a suit it is a waste of money and time. That buyer purpose buy a cheap item and just left 2 NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. I don't really know why he do it. So what I did posted in my PROFILE is ID Member and case number that HE LOST His Claim because HE is a BIG LIAR.

 

I asked for proof that she took it somewhere. For all I know she could have shown it to her "coin sniffing dog" for all anyone knows.

 

Thank you cigarnut.

The denigrating remarks I have been getting were starting to make me think I was the crazy one!

 

I doubt that's the case. You're just upset because you thought you managed to pull a fast one over someone and you got caught, red-handed. You knew it wasn't the real deal, that's why you put all of that disclaimer in there, to protect yourself in case your purchaser opted to seek out the advice of a third party. Thankfully, ebay typically rests on the buyers side, not the sellers side.

 

+500

 

I am simply amazed at the poor sense of logic most of the posters have within this thread - I had no idea some of our intelligent community had their heads so far in the sand. Our world is not fantasy - it is not fair and that sucks but that is life.

Merc, BUncirculated - however you wish you spin this situation the fact remains that photographs and information (Which the knowledgeable have pointed out they could see an issue at a distance) were provided - the auction advanced in normal auction fashion had the price raised to a high level, the buyer won the item. Now - after that fact they admit they did not research, did not investigate and simply bid on a whim on something they were unsure of. How, in any remote possibility, is that the sellers fault and nothing more than buyers remorse?

 

I don't care about that, all I care about is the fact it was described as if it were an error coin, and it obviously was not. He was told the day before the auction ended that it was, in all probability, not an error, and a fake created intentionally. He had ample opportunity to pull the listing given this information, but opted not to. It appears the auction was right around $50 at that point.

To address your question, I feel the seller has a moral obligation to protect the buyer, even if the buyer was being a dumbass. Ebay agrees with me, and that is something Tukas has now learned the hard way. In this situation, I feel (AKA it's my opinion) that Tukas knew what he had and intentionally misled the bidders on ebay... and given that he wouldn't accept a return when approached about the situation, the buyer was absolutely correct to file a claim.

 

Escalate the case you might able to win. First the buyer must proof that she returned your coin with tracking confirmation that it was arrived in your location. It is very UNFAIR to your side to issue a refund with out getting back the coin that sold to her. No matter what if the coin or Fake or Genuine. NO RETURN- NO REFUND.
Second, if you think you don't do anything illegal Fight for it.
From: "service@paypal.com" <service@paypal.com>
To: edwin
Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 2:43:55 AM
Subject: Notification of Case Resolution - Case #PP-000-993-804-629 ( this case filed by a buyer)

Hello edwin ( SELLER)

We have concluded our investigation and have decided in your favor. Any
funds that may have been temporarily held have been returned to your
account.

 

Are you stalking me or something? How the HECK would you know ANYTHING about me?

Why would I even have brought it up to the forum or even came to CT looking for information if I was trying to

?

I am starting to think you are ascribing your own past 'fast ones' on others -in this case me, and then being sanctimonious about it.

In other words... He who smelt it dealt it.