Is anyone buying CAC certified coins exclusively? It just seems like another money making scheme to me. While granted if your buying highend coins maybe it is worth the added cost, but for the average collector I just don't get it. An NGC MS64 is supposed to be an NGC MS64 correct? What is the purpose of verifying again that its an MS64. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Mark in NJ
I agree with you. What's the point? It seems that this is to ensure the buyer that he/she is getting a slabbed coin that the TPG actually graded correctly. Apparently they put stickers on the slab to denote over grading, under grading, or correct grading. Isn't the collector supposed to give the "second opinion" and do so BEFORE buying the coin? Anyway, I don't want to ramble on here, but yes, I agree... another way to jack up the price of a coin, just like the "first strike" designation.
We had a discussion about the subject at out last coin club meeting and it got a little heated. I must admit I'm completely on the fence. I'm just trying to get a good understanding of the reasoning behind it.
The purpose of CAC isn't to confirm that the grade is correct. The purpose of CAC is to confirm that the specific coin is at least in the middle of the grade (call these B coins) and sometimes in the top of the grade (call these A coins) for that date and mint. The problem is this, there are lots and lots and lots of coin in MS65, or MS64, or MS66 - pick your grade - slabs that are in the bottom portion of that grade (call these C coins). Yet all of these coins are graded correctly. Now, if you were a collector, which would you rather have in your collection ? A bunch of C coins ? Or a bunch of B and A coins ? And yes that is a rhetorical question. Now before somebody says - but the collector is supposed to decide if the coin is an A, B, or C. You're absolutely right ! They are. But the fact of the matter is that probably 90% of the collectors out there don't have the skill to do that. They are the same 90% that don't have the skill to correctly grade the coins to begin with which is why they are buying a slabbed coin in the first place. THAT'S why CAC exist And that's why the company is profitable. And - that's why CAC coins usually sell for more than those without the sticker.
I personally do not collect CAC certified coins exclusively, but that is due in most part to the fact that the CAC does not grade mint state Jefferson Nickels which are my series. However, I support the CAC because they help collectors make decisions about buying high end coins sight unseen. What I mean by sight unseen are coins offered in auctions by Heritage etc. They usually have very detailed photos, but photos don't always tell the whole story and they are not a viable substitute for seeing a coin in hand. The added eyes of the CAC in conjunction with the TPG grade reduces the risk of buying coins sight unseen. So much so that I now feel comfortable bidding on high end coins from online auctions sight unseen as long as they are CAC approved. I don't understand the gripe that the CAC is a scheme to jack up prices. The CAC sticker might increase the price of the coin at purchase, but it will also increase the price of the coin at the time of sale. The only real concern is the long term acceptance of the CAC in the numismatic marketplace. If you buy a CAC coin at a premium price today, and the CAC fails in the next few years, you might not be able to recover the premium paid when you sell. But with high end dealers like Legend throwing their full support behind the CAC, it appears as if they are finally gaining widespread acceptance including acquiesence from the CAC detractors. Mark, you asked if you are missing something. The answer is YES. The idea of incremental grading long pre-dates the CAC. Not every MS64 is the same and there are grades within the grade. The fact is that there are low end, good for grade, and premium quality coins within each numerical grade. All the CAC sticker does is help ensure that a coin is not a low end coin for the assigned grade. Would you be happy paying the same price for a PQ MS64 as one that achieved the MS64 grade because it was cracked out of an MS63 holder and resubmitted three times? I really don't understand the preoccupation with coin collectors to get a good price on their coins. Personally, I prefer to pay a premium price for premium quality coins whether it be for eye appealing toning, rare market availability, or PQ for the grade. I believe that you get what you pay for. If you pay more for a CAC approved coin, more often than not, you will get a better coin.
For some reason which is beyond my ability to comprehend, collectors tend to be cheap. Things that can potentially add cost to a coin transaction (like the CAC) are viewed through this lens -- not that there's anything wrong with that perspective, but I personally, do not subscribe to it. It is also human nature to resist change. Just like there was a huge outcry at the beginning of the TPG revolution (some of which lives on to this day), there is a similar resistance to the CAC. Again, not necessarily right or wrong, but to coin a cliche, it is what it is.
Thanks GD!, Now I have a clearer understanding and it makes sence. Especially when your dealing with higher end coins. It makes it even safer to purchase a coin sight unseen. If it is CAC certified your getting a top level of whatever specific grade it happens to be. Correct?
Thanks Leigh, I can understand the reasoning now. While it does jack up the price a little it is probably well worth the additional cost. Long term if the collector wishes to sell their CAC cert. coin it more than likely be an easier sale because the buyer can be assured that the coin is at the top of it's grade.
I think at the next coin show I go to I'll try to pick up 2 coins. One CAC and one not just to have a comparison. Another question. What about those lables being counterfeited? It seems like they would be simple to copy IMO.
I assume that the "+" indicates the higher end of that grade. If this is the case, why don't the grading companies use more strict grading standards to begin with?
It isn't that they don't use strict grading standards. The problem lies in that a MS64 coins vary a bit. Some are almost good enough to be 65's but something is lacking to get that grade. Unless the TPG's go to a decimal scale they all have to be listed as 64's. Now the "+" will indicate the higher end of the grade.
The CAC provides a verification search on their website. If you are at all skeptical about the sticker, simply enter the certification number and you will get your results. http://www.caccoin.com/look-up-your-coins/ If you enter a valid CAC certified coin, the response will look like this.
Does anyone know what percentage of coins submitted to CAC are returned unstickered? It would be interesting to know what percentage of coins submitted to them meet their standards.
