Let's see your Conder Tokens

Yes, yes, yes. : )

Thanks, yarm. I have the CD but had not looked at his 1042. Wow.
I know Dr. Gary Sriro has tracked the sale of virtually every Conder sold over the internet for the past 12 years or more.
Admittedly, my copy is a few years old and he has an updated version which may show more than 9 examples sold.

As far as condition, I was amazed to find the stag in such great shape, though certainly not as pristine as my 1041.
The reverse shows me that there was some flatness in areas of the reverse die, so wear is less on mine than
I previously thought but I suspected some weakness and thought it was strike, but now believe it rests more in the die state.
I believe the strike was quite similar on his example and mine.

Evidence of rusted areas (about 6) in the field of the obverse die appears on both examples.

This is not to say there is no wear present on my 1042, there certainly is some, but it seems lighter than before, a good thing. : )

I also notice that my example of 1042 (rated Scarce) was struck on a larger planchet/flan than the Sriro example.
Obverse dentils are cleared by fields on 85-90% of the circumference on mine.

I have another, similar token with Britannia in similar condition, and it is very AU-ish, with a good deal of mint red.
Considering condition rarity, mine may be much better than I thought at first. Thanks, Bob. This is fun! : )

BTW, the lettered edge on mine reads...

PAYABLE IN LONDON (remainder engrailed) {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{


Now I see the advantage of buying a token from the Collection of Robbie Brown, Jr.
Instead of getting worse in my mind, this token is getting better.
I have been studying my own photos of the piece for a few day now,
so I pulled the 1042 out this morning and observed it without magnification.

Here's what I now see...

The token is entirely prooflike with beautiful toning developing, red, blue, green, copper.
Edges of lettering and devices show that nice red margin so common to proofs and prooflike issues.
With the naked eye, I see the slightest wear on a few high points, almost like rub, or cabinet wear.
It's very, very nice. I'll now estimate the grade for this token at AU-50 here, or EF in the U.K.
Could this be the Finest Known, or nearly so? Wow.

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This is a good example of how collaboration can help, and how additional reference resources can help.
I only received this token a few days ago. I've already learned a lot about it.
I bought it because of the provenance and the fact I could see in seller's photos that the stag was clearly better than VF,
comparing quite favorably to my UNC stag on the 1041.

 

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Axial Lighting

These are photos taken this morning using axial lighting, which simulates tipping a coin toward a light source
to better view its toning. It also reveals any flattened or heavily rubbed areas, and scratches and spots.

If I were ever to sell a coin and wanted to use axial lighting, I would also provide photos taken with direct lighting
While it's true that a buyer opening a package would likely tilt a toned coin to see its toning better, I can't be sure
of that and I do not want to mislead a buyer. But axial lighting can provide details one can miss, even with loupe
or microscope, or photos taken in direct lighting. It's a bit like another kind of loupe, a very special loupe. ; )

Not x-rays, but very revealing.









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That is superb! Nice technique!

 

Here's my second Conder , I just won it so I don't have it in hand . These are the sellers pics . Hants #72, Portsea_ British colonial conder token__1794
Edge legend: "At George Howard Sargeant's Portsea"






Rusty

 

Rusty - :yes::thumb::thumb:

 

To all of you; your Condors are absolutely gorgeous! I'm speechless!

 

Thanks Cat . Doesn't hold a candle to any of yours , but I like it . Now for the Alligator - rattlesnake , and the Wildman !!!!!!!
Rusty

 

Here's a wikipedia article on James Conder. It features a photo of one of my Conder Conders, Suffolk Ipswich 35.
It was issued by James Conder himself, for his drapery business, but he had long been a collector of tokens.
He would become famous for his catalogs of this unofficial coinage from 1787-1797 or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Conder

For verification of spelling, read the title of this thread.
Even the wikipedia article used to misspell it -- that's not uncommon.
Even some unknowing dealers list tokens that way.

I'd like all numismatists to know the proper spelling of Conder and why it is spelled this way.

 

:thumb::thumb:

 

Although described as a farthing on Baldwin's ticket, this is a Scottish shilling struck in copper.

 

Nice !

 

I notice a couple of dealers have listed Conder tokens with James Watt Jr. pedigrees. Here's my one and only from that source (via McKivor).

 

Wow, James Watt, Jr. James Watt of course was Matthew Boulton's partner at Soho Mint, so I imagine Watt's collection passed to his son.
Both Watt, Jr., and Boulton, Jr., were involved in running Soho in later years, before they closed Soho and sold most of the minting equipment to Heaton.

Bill McKivor is a fine source for items once owned by Boulton, too. Such items bring hefty premiums, but they include provenance.

Imagine purchasing tokens and medals directly from the Boulton Family. I believe he has other examples that came from different sources.

Congratulations, yarm, on a really special purchase. : )

 

:foot-mouth: Sorry I just can't help myself..... :grandpa:

 

That coin is from Chile. It is not a British Conder Token.

 

Another penny-sized medal (BHM 251) that found its way into Dalton & Hamer.

 

But it shows an image of a "conder" (condor). :smile

 

Of course, a condor (the bird) has nothing to do with Conder Tokens. : )
I don't have to look at it anymore since I placed the poster on my Ignore list. : )



That is a nice medal in great condition, yarm.
I especially like the engraving of Priestley's tool bench on its reverse.

 

Wales, Anglesey DH 0252c (RR)

Druid Pattern by William Williams

The Druid was the first obverse design tho appear on a Conder Token, the first Conders being issued in 1787 on Anglesey Island in Wales.

William Williams, of London, struck fewer than 30 examples of this pattern variety.
It has a plain, rough edge and was struck not in collar. Most Druid tokens had a lettered edge and upset rims.

These patterns were struck for collectors. This example is in fantastic condition and is now 220 years old and in high MS-grade. It is not a proof, but is a pattern.

NOTE: There is another notable Williams in Conder Token history and that was lawyer Thomas Williams, the "Copper King,"
managing partner in the Parys and Mona Mining Companies and the richest man in Wales.






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