Camera specs for capturing color

So I pride myself in being able to take nice, clean, detailed images of coins. However, I feel I have reached the limit on my current camera. I just can't seem to capture color and toning. I have tried every conceivable lighting and settings and it just doesn't look like it does to my eye. This became most apparent when shooting images of cobalt blue, yellow and pruple, and other colored proof Jefferson nickels. I beleive it to be a limitation of the camera. It is a cheapy.

So, my question is:

When I am reviewing new cameras, what is the specification I am looking for that is most related to capturing true color. If there is one. Meaning, I know it isn't Megapixel, or zoom factors, etc... Is there something I should be looking for? Cost is an issue. I can't go and get a $1000 SLR camera.

How the heck does PCGS do their 'true color' images? This is one of my nickels, but there is no way I can get my images to look like this. The coin in hand is a little darker, and you really have to tilt the slab around to see the colors.



I am able to capture the color on VERY toned coins when the contrast is so vibrant, like these.

edit: These were actually taken with my Android phone. It captures color better then my digital camera.

 

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You want to (pardon the pun) focus on the ability to use a grey card and do a custom white balance for the lighting you're using. Otherwise you'll always be playing with the color and doing a bad job of it.

Second, even when you do this, please be aware that you will still struggle to capture the color of a coin entombed in plastic. In order to best capture the color on a coin you need to have a direct reflection of the light -- and this is a physical impossibility as the slab will reflect some of the light causing a loss of contrast at the same time the colors start to look right. PCGS is able to get around this because they take their pictures raw -- a HUGE advantage.

That said, all is not lost. You can, through experimentation, place multiple lights so that their reflection point lies just outside the coin itself, thus lighting up the coin yet not causing reflection off the slab -- and every single good photograph I've ever seen of a toned coin in a slab uses some form of this technique.

Hope this helps...Mike

 

Mike.. thanks for the quick response. So, if I understand correctly, I need to have control over the 'white balance' on the camera? My current camera doesn't have that control, it's simply a choice of "flourescent, auto, cloudy, and a couple more". There isn't a white balance feature. I should look for a camera with this feature?

Also, what is 'use a grey card' referring to?

 

A grey card is exactly what the name implies -- a card that's printed with a uniform grey color. On better cameras, you can take a picture of a grey card and use it as a white-balance reference. On any camera, once you've taken a picture with a known grey somewhere in the image, you can use image-processing software to adjust the image.

The tricky part for capturing toning, in my (very limited) experience, is that toning only shows up at its best when there's a very small angle between the camera (or your eye) and the light source. It's hard to arrange things this way, because the camera blocks the light! And, as Mike said, if the coin is encapsulated, you'll get glare.

 

I am not saying anything Mike said is wrong, but try investing in the lighting. Cameras do not have the same "eye" as you do. Try as they do, they can only imitate some of capture ability of the eye and you have to find the lighting (both in color and brightness) gets you to the point the camera best imitates your eye. I do not have an answer of how to get there, but start with Reveal bulbs. They are cheap and most people seen to find they work.

 

Well I could try, but I have tried so many different lights.. I even bought a large shadow box with different lights and stuff. I guess the question is, will any camera that costs less than $125 actually do what I am hoping? The mention of the white balance is already a flag for me that my camera is not up to the task.

I will stop and pick up a couple reveal bulbs and see what happens!

 

I don't think your camera is the problem. All digital cameras, even the $8000 DSLRs, use much the same mechanism to capture and store color. I think your answer will be found in lighting, and practice.

 

I have no idea what camera you have, but I would almost bet you have a white balance. Nearly every camera in the last 5 (+?) years has it.

BTW, part of what most (all?) cameras do to try to imitate your eye is to is to adjust the picture balance (both color and brightness) to the predominant color and brightness in the picture. i.e. putting a coin on a white background will make the coin look darker, putting a coin on a black background will make the coin look lighter, putting a coin on a red background will make the coin look less red, etc.

 

You may be right. I think I wil expirement a little more.

 

Interesting. Ok, I will check out my manual for the camrea and see whats going on with the white balance. I am hoping you are right and that this will help.

My shadowbox also came with 4 different colored backdrops, I will experiment with these as well.

 

Well I am glad I asked the question here. It forced me to actually download and read the manual for my camera. I just found where it has the manual adjusments for white balance and some other nice features for color capture.

Thanks guys! I'm excited to see how this will turn out tonight, with the new reveal bulbs I will grab on the way home!

 

Axial lighting




or get the lighting as close to 90 degrees to the coin. Theis set up





produces images like this..








with the lighting set up shown above, some coins don't want to show their true colors.




Until you shoot them with an axial set up:






BTW while the PCGS true view images are very nice, those images and others that PCGS has done aren't always accurate. whether they can be called "juiced" is debatable. I believe that others will agree with me on this.

 

Ahh nice setup EEW. I will try the axial lighting you show in the first image. I agree about the PCGS photos as well, trust me that nickel doesn't look nearly as vivid as the picture wants you to beleive.

 

Well I am so glad I posted this topic. I wish I would have done it a long time ago! Although I have some more practicing and lighting adjustments to do, I was NEVER able to capture this kind of color on these.
This was accomplished using axial lighting (the best I could manage), white balance and background colors! Thanks for all the help! I will keep improving hopefully. I couldnt get the color at all out of my slabbed nickels, yet.

What do you think? I was never able to capture the green on the copper like that, or any color on the Jefferson proofs.

 

Awesome Gbroke! Nice images. What the others said is spot on. The only thing I would add is that if you really want the most accurate colors, then you should calibrate your monitor with some hardware. I recommend Spyder Pro.

 

Excellent idea jallengomez. I will check this out for sure.

I can't beleive how much better these images turn out now. I always wanted to post this one I pulled from an original bank roll, but it never looked right until now! Sweeeeeet!

 

Greg,

Axial lighting is a fine technique but one that really should only be necessary for the most elusive toned coins. Most toning can be captured using direct lighting as long as you have a copy stand and multiple lights. As you know, all of my photos are the result of a point & shoot with two fluorescent lights. Here is a link that explains my method in more detail.

http://www.coinforums.com/f15/what-best-method-photo-slabbed-coin-561/

All of your photos show the same flaw. You are not getting enough light on the surface of your coins. If you are using only one light, you will need at least one more and possibly a third light for deeply toned coins. I have found that even light toning can be very difficult to capture and it the ability to capture the color is related much more to the luster rather than the toning. Take this coin for example. It is just some simple powder blue & gold, but it is very difficult to capture.

 

Agreed. not sure if my style of posting emphasized that point enough. Getting the light(s) straight on, in line with your camera will work for most coins.. Notice how the shadow of the lens, from the lights almost touches the coin?



I only reset the lights for axial shots when all else has failed. I use a 150w spot when shooting axial.. I have one coin that no matter how I shoot it I can't get it to match the color of blue in hand..



This is shot with lighting straight on.






This one is shot axial




This one was shot straight on also. 2 lights - I think...

 

Hi paul. I completely agree with what you said. There is not enough light. I will read your thread and keep practicing. I definitely need to work on the light source(s). I am happy with the finally capturing the color though. Practice makes perfect.

 

Nice EEW. I will see how good I can get with my cheapy camera. I will pick up some new lights and bulbs and try that out as well.