Buying from dealers at a show.

Hey folks,
I will be attending a large coin show this weekend and I have a few questions for you more experienced shoppers.
I am looking to purchase a raw trade dollar and raw seated liberty dollar. I do not normally collect these, and I know little about them. They are for my Dansco 7070. I know these can get pretty pricey, and I didnt want to get them on ebay due to fakes, crappy pictures, etc..

• I assume the prices the dealers have on all of their items are very negotiable. correct? If so, what is a good precentage of that price to offer them?
• Do most dealers accurately grade these items? Meaning, if their 2x2 says XF, is it most likely XF, or is it like ebay where they are way to generous?
• Finally, would www.numismedia.com be a good reference for value? Should I offer F prices for XF coins?

I really don't want to come off as a noob to these dealers and get taken for a ride.
Comments/suggestions?

-greg

 

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I think that would be a terrible strategy.
You should be able to determine a fair price for a coin yourself. What if the dealer has priced his Trade Dollar at double the going rate? Even if you got him to knock off 10% you would still be paying 80% too much.

You should be able to grade the coins yourself rather than depend on the dealer's ability to grade. (If your grading skills are better than the dealer you may have an opportunity to cherrypick.)

Personally I would use a current Grey Sheet.

 

Good points hobo. I didn't even think of the grey sheet, duh.

 

G, even dealers can be fooled by counterfeit trade dollars. Try to get second opinions if you can. Of course, according to some of the people here, it's your tough luck if you buy a counterfeit.

Chris

 

Before buying either of those ungraded, I would heavily study reference books on them and spend some time learning how to spot counterfeits (as well as how to set a fair price).

Watch a few different dates and grades on eBay (in slabs vs. without) and record the prices realized for an accurate fair-market value.

 

I think hobo answered best, but if you want to improve your odds of not getting a counterfeit coin you can buy PCGS/NGC slabbed coins. Then crack them out of the slabs and save the labels. Just an option.

 

PS - doing that also opens up some options for pricing. Online dealers and auctions also.

 

You all make valid points. I think it is worth it to just get them in slabs. I will pay the higher cost for the piece of mind. Thanks for the replies.

 

Chris, you really shouldn't bring things from that thread to this thread, it's just poor, poor form. I'm sorry you got a bit riled up over ethics in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with ethics and had everything to do with legality, but that still remains no excuse to think, nay, to imply that some of us are lacking in the ethics department.

I've come to expect better conduct of you.

To answer the OP's question, I usually get a good idea of value for the coin I'm targeting, slabbed. If buying raw, I'll proceed to take off slabbing cost, plus a bit extra for the hassle, then another so many percentage points based on price and make an offer.

I rarely, if ever, buy raw, though.

 

You have been around this forum for awhile , I hope you have gained some insight on how to approach Buying and approaching Dealers in general. Do your homework, and you will do just fine.

 

Dealers want profit! Do you think they'll make prices cheap!

 

Dealers also value liquidity. Having an item sit there in inventory for a while will cost them money. If you make a reasonable offer, they'll usually accept it.

 

Trade dollars and Seated dollars are some of the most counterfeited coins around , I'd buy a slabbed coin from a reputal tpg , PCGS , NGC , ANACS all are good at verifying if a coin is genuine . Like someone said before even dealers can be fooled . If you do buy a raw Trade dollar make shure you can take it back , most dealers will back their coins even if sold at a show .
rzage

 

Is this a joke or what? You need to do your own homework (take responsibility) on pricing coins and not just assume just bc a dealer can be talked down its a good deal. Many dealers operate on a narrow spread and will not be talked down others price them into the stratosphere to trap the unwary.

Mostly I quote CW Tends, and may take a counter offer about 10% below trends.

 

You're looking for two very specific things. It will be an easy but labor intensive path. Buy the appropriate CDN for those coins and bring it with you. Most dealers you can trust when they tell you their grade. All the good ones I know usually grade conservatively, but there can be exceptions. Ask what they are asking and compare to your CDN...it's cool if they see you, they don't mind and shows your a smart buyer.

Be aware that some coins are better and may have higher price points and less margin for bargining....every coin is different. It's fine to counter offer, but don't expect them to come down automatically. It's also rude to counter-offer every coin you ask about...DON'T DO THAT. Reserve that counter-off for a coin you're prepared to buy right now.

Finally, don't have a negative attitude like the dealer is a con-artist. You sound quiet skeptical and on the offense from your post. The VAST majority of coin dealers are good people. RELAX, HAVE FUN! ...BRING CASH!

 

I have heard more than one dealer say that about 50% of the seated dollars you run into are fake. Trade dollars are at least as bad or worse. I would buy in a slab, but it is hard tro find low grade commons in slabs.
For a raw, buy it from a dealer you know and trust even if you must pay a little more (usually a major well known dealer at a show is ok, even if you don't know them)

Lack

 

Well folks, I have decided to buy the dollars in slabs. Thank you for the feeback.
For those of you who say I should take responsibility and know what I am buying, I can understand that and agree on a certain level. However, I do not intend to purchase more than 1 of each type (seated, trade dollars) for my 7070. I simply cannot educate myself on all 72 type coins and become a self expert. In fact I am not stuck on having any certain grade, I just want the grade I do buy to be priced accordingly.
I just want to fill the dang book! I know enough about the rest of the coins not to get ripped off or to purchase a fake. I also understand the dealers are there to make money.

Thank you BadThad for the informative post, that is what I was wanting to hear. Hopefully I can find what I am looking for this Sunday.

Also, do dealers at the show generally take debit/credit cards, or is it usually cash only?

 

Most dealers don't accept plastic, don't bother with it. For the best deal use CASH only as most dealers will ask if you're using cash before they even give you a price. It helps during negotiation too, I keep a wad out and ready when I'm making a counter-offer....it definately helps when they see you're serious. You gotta remember, most people that ask for prices don't buy when they hear the price and that is a waste of the dealers time. The more serious you are, the better price you'll get.

 

Do a search for Charmy's thread on buying....some good stuff in there and it give you the dealers perspective.

 

Use only cash at coin shows (Numismatics is a financial privacy hobby anyhow). Most dealers are cash and carry. If you try to pay with check or card they may tack on sales tax if they even take non cash payment.

A guy is asking $225 for a coin at his table. Lay down two Bens and offer him $200. Chances are he will take it unless its something like bullion or someone who operates on a narrow spread. If you make two low of an offer, you will look ignorant and he will soundly reject it or laugh you off the bourse.