Is it legal?

IMO the dealer has responsibility for his purchases. Now as far as the associate, he is the representative for the dealer and it is the dealer's responsibility to have trained his employee. Do you think the dealer would call a client to offer a refund if his employee paid to little for a coin?

Still, I would return the money just on principle, but I don't know if the op's coworker is legally bound to do so.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

There is some validity to your comment, Chris. BUT, if the part-timer can't spot a counterfeit, and is buying it (it was, after all, brought in for an assessed value, not to be sold originally), then it is the responsibility of the shop owner to make sure his part-timer either:

a) IS authorized to MAKE a purchase while 'babysitting' the store, THEN..
b) better know how to spot a counterfeit

There are more knowledgable people on these forums than I, but given the situation, as I read/comprehend it, the OP's associate went in for an appraisal, and was OFFERED $$ for the coin. The associate walks out, then decides to sell the coin. He walks out of the store. Sale/transaction completed, done. I understand about the ebay correlation, but this is a B&M. If someone is at the store, and able to make an offer, when he was simply asked for an appraisal, I put it on the owner of the store as 'tuition', just like most of us have had to 'pay'.

The big problem I have in regard to doing the 'right thing', has been mentioned....how the hell does the OP's associate know he's getting the same coin back? He can't possibly, as he had no idea what it was, was worth, etc, before he brought it in to the EXPERT, who offered to buy it. IMO, the owner of the B&M should NOT allow the part-timer to make ANY offers, even on slabbed items. If the owner has enough trust in his part-timer to entrust him with the store, he should also know his capabilities/knowledge, and therefore allow him to, or NOT allow him to, make ANY offers on ANY item. The part-timer SHOULD have simply stated what he THOUGHT the piece COULD be worth, but any dealings for actual offers would have to be done with the owner. If the shop owner allows that part-timer to make offers, his part-timer is his representative.

IMO, I thinnk the shop owner may be trying to pull something over on him. Perhaps he got a counterfeit of the same piece in a 'lot', and is trying to pull a 'switcheroo', as has been mentioned. If I were the OP's associate, I'd not do a damn thing. A deal is a deal. In the ebay/paypal world, it's different...you just file a SNAD, and you get your $$ back. Not in this case.

 

Chris, you're absolutely correct...we would! However, if the coin wasn't misrepresented and we bought it, removing it from it's holder, we would own it...counterfeit or not. As for the Associate, what's he doing purchasing coins on the owner's behalf without authorization?

I'm in no way suggesting that anyone should knowingly sell counterfeit coins...that's FRAUD!! However, in this case, the OP's coworker simply entered the coin shop to obtain an appraisal. It was the Dealer (or his authorized agent) that suggested purchasing the coin (after rendering the appraisal).

Too bad a 1099 form wasn't required. :u*meY:

EDIT: Ahhh....Numismania, you beat me to it! ...but I like the way you think. :thumb:

 

yakpoo, I take that as a great compliment (but then again, I haven't been around long enough to know how people view YOUR point of view's! (J/K......thanks!)

 

Fraud requires intent. I retain my position that your friend will be fine, and this one is on the dealership. I would tell the dealer "Too bad, so sad" and if they keep calling, file a report of harassment with the police.

 

Republicans...sometimes. Democrats...not so much. Coin collector's...maybe 50/50. I'm happy with that!

 

Unfortunately , for that Dealer , ALL SALES AND PURCHASES ARE FINAL . It's as simple as that.

 

This is a great discussion. I too am interested in the specifics of the coin; If it were me and I could tell that it was the same coin, I would return the money whether I was legally obligated or not. If I honestly couldn't tell, I would keep the money... unless I believed in the integrity of the dealer.

 

Geez, you guys are relying on secondhand information and you can't even say with 100% certainty that the coworker gave the OP the whole truth. Aw shucks! All he wanted was an appraisal. Really? How do you know? What is a dealer, any dealer, to expect when someone walks in and wants to know the value of a coin, and why shouldn't he be allowed to make an offer to buy it?

Remind me never to conduct business with any of you. I wouldn't trust you to do the right thing if it slapped you in the face.

Chris

 

I wold like to know if the coin store has any legal right to demand the money back when they at first varified the value of the coin, then offered to buy it from my coworker which he then accepted?

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=155979&pagenumber=#ixzz1DmDaUy1I​

I say no. They bought the coin and it's their problem now. What type of coin was it? What type of dealer was it?

 

+1 :thumb:

 

And how are we to know the dealer didn't switch the coin out for a good counterfeit before calling the customer to demand their money back?

 

Is that what you would have done?

Chris

 

The moment a dealer writes you a receipt and pay's you , in CASH , all Sales are Final . More likely than not, the dealer thought he made a hell of a buy , to shell out $ 865 00 in CASH . Any bad purchase by the dealer , is their own fault , not the sellers. As for the question " Does the Seller have any legal obligation to return that money ? " NO . Moral ? That's entirely up to that Seller . It's not terribly difficult to wrap your mind around. Excuse me, it was $850.00 .

 

This merely reinforces my point how things can get distorted from one person's account to the next.................$865?

Remind me not to laugh too hard the next time one of you whimpers like a little puppy with his tail between his legs when you post an account of being cheated.

Chris

 

Chris, you're right...this is second-hand information. The best we can do is treat it like a hypothetical. As with any hypothetical, you start by taking the presentation as fact. Given the facts as the OP has laid out, folks are expressing their opinions pro or con.

I agree with Ladies First...that the Seller should return to the Dealer, view the coin in question, and if there's any sort of distinguishing characteristic or mark that proves to the Seller the coin is the original, then the Seller has an ethical obligation to return the money.

If the Dealer's coersive tactics make the Seller feel intimidated, the Seller should return with a representative; another dealer or Police Officer. If the Seller isn't satisfied with the Dealer's explaination as to why the coin is counterfeit and why it was incorrectly appraised in the first place, the Buyer has met his ethical responsibility and can leave with a clear conscience...imho.

 

Wrong! You don't treat a hypothetical as fact. You take the hypothetical and test it to see if it stands up. No one here can test this "hypothetical" without the dealer and the coworker providing their sides of the account, in person and not through a third party.

By the way, what I said about people distorting things, no mention was made in the OP about the dealer using coercive tactics. Furthermore, you don't know who it was who was continually calling. It may very well have been the "Associate", and I use that term loosely, because the owner was going to take it out of his pay.

Chris

 

This isn't about what I would or would not do, but I'll humor you with an answer anyway.

Hell no, but we hear stories about dealers paying clueless people a fraction of what things are actually worth (IE; old lady comes in with $100 FV silver, dealer offers her $500 and she takes it, dealer makes a killing) and ripping them off, so if these dealers are as unethical as to stoop that low, what's to stop them from simply switching out a coin and trying to rip off another clueless seller?

Let me ask you this, Chris. You pass away, your collection is inherited by, say, a spouse. She's clueless about coins, takes the lot to a dealer who offers her a fair price for them, given market value. However, amongst those coins is an unknown variety that the dealer stumbles upon while taking a closer look at everything. He proceeds to turn around and sell the coin for 100x what he paid for the whole lot. Is he under any moral or legal obligation to call up your spouse and offer her a chunk of his windfall profit?

The vast majority of dealers out there would laugh all the way to the bank.

 

Heres a fact . If a Dealer pay's anyone , in cash for receipt of a coin , token, medal or Monroe's G-string , the dealer takes possession, they own it ...period. That you can take to the bank . You can present all the hypothetical's you want , it does not negate the fact. For the purpose of this discussion , that is what had happened in this scenario . The question posed in this thread is whether or not the Dealer has a legal right to demand those cash funds back. The ANSWER is an emphatic NO . The Dealer made the mistake , error or whatever , that's why they determine what they buy or not. It is implied the Dealer made an appraisal and determined a value and made what they feel was a fair & reasonable offer ( hmm) . Done deal.

 

That Dealer can report it to whomever they desire till the cow's come home. He made a legally binding contract of Sale. He had better hope that this Seller doesn't start spreading the word among the other local dealers in his area about this. Not the reputation a dealer would want to have to live with.