do not deal with this guy

i had agreed a sale with oregoncoins for some russian wire money and asked for the shipping cost to the UK, then just because i had never bought anything from him before and that someone else had bought a few coins from him already, guess what? he sold them to the other guy.................do not under any circumstances buy anything from this guy as you may be disappoinnted, if someone else has bought a few coins already then you have no chance!!

 

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Calm down.

You've posted a similar rant on 2 forums already. I personally bought some coins yesterday, and he was polite and professional and fast, from what I could tell. Never dealt with him before, and haven't gotten my coins yet, but everyone else on the other forum who dealt with him have been satisfied. You gotta realize that it's easier for him to sell the coins to someone else who is in the US and may have already bought other coins, even though you may have "claimed" them by saying which ones you want.

I didn't buy that wire money, but I saw the drama unfold and thought I'd put in my two cents after your "everyone is doomed!" comment. So a seller went with something that was more profitable/convenient for them, big deal... it's not like he shipped you a fake coin, or stole your money.

 

I would agree with Rhino and understand why the seller may have taken the easy way out and sold to a US customer. I have had packages missing overseas, and it is much more common than in the US. Sorry, just my experience in shipping to Europe that postal employees there seem to have sticky fingers, while I have never lost a package shipping domestically. If I were wanting to sell something, and had two interested buyers, I would sell to the US buyer first just for this reason.

I am not saying British post is bad, just Europe in general can be bad. Why risk that as a seller when you have a safe domestic customer? I understand you being disappointed, but maybe if the Europeans did something about their malfunctioning postal system Americans wouldn't feel this way. Again, not saying Britain is, but you have to admit a few European ones are QUITE bad, (cough...Italy...cough). Myself, I trust Deutsche Post and none other in Europe for high value items. If I win something in a UK or other European auction I have my bid agent hand carry it.

 

Don't really buy much from the US, but I guess that, if an American seller told me "sorry, I'm having second thoughts, and I'd rather sell my coins to a fellow American than to you", I would not be happy either. More specifically, I would not buy from such a seller again ... not that he would care.

And people who do not "trust" other mail services should say so in advance. If a seller says, there is only one mail service in the world that I would use for mailing coins, fine. But then that seller should simply stop selling to anybody outside the USPS realm, and make that part of his terms and conditions. Would be easier for both him and his customers.

Christian

 

There's no obligation on a seller to sell coins on the basis of "first come, first serve" on a forum. Neither are there any rules for such. But commenting on a transaction that didn't turn out in your way, more importantly that didn't even occur just shows that you are inconsiderate, unflexible and clearly not someone I want to deal with.

 

Depending upon the venue , the Seller's always has the option to cancel the Sale , even if they simply don 't like the color of your money, or your eyes. I think you might be overlooking something here , with regards to this sale. I can't speak to it factually, without having more of the fine print. With European shipping , it's get very costly for a buyer, especially say if you buying a $10.00 item , s& h can run you upwards of $20.00 . I don't think I would be to eager to shell out that sum for an item of actual value which may be less than half the cost of S & H .

 

I dunno...I think I side with moneyer12 on this one. If the buyer and seller genuiningly had a sale agreement and during the final discussions to take care of loose ends the seller said..sorry...I just resold them to someone else, then the seller is a unprofessional schmuck who needs a slap across the head,,plain and simple.
The deciding factor is..how solid was this sale agreement..its hard to read between the lines of the original post.
What if it was a car you guys were interested in, and after you decided on the price, you went to get approval from your bank for financing, and when you went back the dealer sold it?
Would you be ps'ed? I know I would.

 

Last year I sent over 500 items from Iceland to countrys all around the world.

Three items were lost and two of those were in the US one in spain but that one was returned to me some weeks later the US ones have never been found.

What you have to understand is that a small amount of shippments get lost every year. Icelandpost states about 0.05% get lost. Saying that Europe in geniral is bad and the postal employees have sticky fingers is based on guess work. Items get lost but it does not mean they have been stolen.

And the only place someone made an attempt to steal from me a hight valued coin was a US citizen. Now should I say all American are thiefs No it was just a rotten apple amongst honest people.

Off coures domestic post is a safer bet but the US and every other country has a items lost there as well.

I have sent to Russia, Ukrain Africa, Asia and countrys that are black listed by masses on ebay wiht out any problems. You just have to use common sense regarding insurance and tracking numbers and let your buyers know the extra cost.

 

my point is that as i had agreed to buy the coins only to be told that i had been usurped is totally unprofessional,

 

for a dealer to agree to a purchase and then change their mind is just bad practice imo. although i can see why he would be weary of sending to the uk. i personally wouldnt use a us dealer because the postal system is just so unreliable

 

correction old chap this forum, and one other, when one enters into s negoytiation then when one reneges it is a bad deal

 

If an agreement had been made then it should of been followed through on. I had a similar experience a few years ago. I had offered some coins for sale at a given price. A gentleman made me an offer of about 60% of asking price which I replied and said thanks for the offer but I am sorry, Can't let them go for that. A few days later another person made me a full offer and I sold. I was lambasted on the forum for not "counteroffering" the first guys low bid offer. He said I OWED it to him to make a counteroffer and then he could of made the decision.. I ended up being the bad guy in the transaction.

 

you wouldnt owe the guy anything. if his first offer wasnt good enough why should he get a second chance?

 

I can't side with anyone here. WE don't have all the facts. Remember , there is always two sides to a story and three sides to a coin.

 

???????????????????????

 

Hey guys, what did I miss? lol

C'mon, moneyer12. I'm not an evil dude. You talk as if we had an agreement, but we didn't. You hadn't committed yet... We hadn't agreed to postage costs, paypal fees, or even the basic question of whether you wanted the $11 wire money if you couldn't also have the $15 flying eagle cent. You never said that you'd definitely buy anything. You left an exit for yourself in the form of ambiguity about material terms like price and delivery. If you disagree, tell me: What was our deal? What would I send to you, how would I send it, what would you pay me, how would you pay it? There's a lot of room for a deal to go south in between where we were and answering all those questions.

But I didn't ask for any controversy. There's always another deal. And over $11? I think it's a little odd to air our private business on a public forum - and notably, not the forum where we met and initiated our transaction - but on a forum on which I've never participated before. Was the purpose of that so that I might not respond? Look, I don't even want to go there. I'm not angry, but I feel the need to fill in the gaps of your story.

I sense that you're clinging onto one fact and one fact alone, which is that I told you in a PM that I sent at about 5:30pm PST on 2/10 that I would hold the wire money lot for you. In retrospect, that was a mistake, and one which I won't repeat. However, I said that gratuitously, without any promise of reciprocal performance from you, so the way that I understand these things to work is that your "hold" was bump-able by someone who wanted to step up and perform before you. In other words, as a buyer, it's unreasonable to expect a seller to turn away a full-price cash offer at seller's stated terms, and instead continue to hold a coin for you when you haven't even expressed an unequivocal willingness to buy it. If I get another offer while a coin is on hold, if there's time, I'll go to the first buyer and ask for assurances in the form of payment. By the way, as you may recall, that's what I did for you with a third buyer regarding the flying eagle cent - I told him that you were interested in it, and to let me know if he didn't want it. He said he wanted it, and he paid for it, and you and I hadn't even come to agreement on essential terms, much less gotten to the point where you were ready to pay me. As I explained in detail to you (which I think the readers of this thread ought to know), shortly after I told you that I'd hold the lot, I had a rapid exchange of PMs with another buyer who bought many items, and paid literally seconds after ordering. When he wanted to add on the wire money lot and another item towards the end of our PM exchange, I was faced with a decision - take the sure thing and sell to him - or face the uncertainty of whether you'd really feel like buying the lot at all, whether you'd want it even though the cent wasn't available, whether you'd want it after I told you how much I wanted to charge for postage, whether you'd want it after I told you that you would be responsible for the 3% paypal fee, and then, if we got that far, whether you'd bicker, drag your heels paying, etc., etc., etc. Importantly, you hadn't responded to my last PM by the time I received the new offer on the lot, and you didn't respond for another 10 hours.

Yes, of course I decided to take the sure thing. How many people who sell on these forums would do otherwise? Perhaps, in the clarity of hindsight, a better way to have handled this would have been to tell you in a PM that I had an offer on the lot, that the hold was in jeopardy, and that if you wanted the lot, I would need to receive payment. But here, given the rapid negotiations with my other buyer, my sense was that I risked losing that sure-thing sale if I'd waited more than a couple minutes for you to respond. Is there any way you would have responded in time? Is it reasonable for me to have to risk losing the ability to sell the lot to anyone by taking the time to send you a pointless PM? Again, I didn't hear from you for another 10 hours - not exactly the kind of responsiveness that's consistent with "yes, I want it," or your current indignation for that matter. I took the bird in hand, because, frankly-speaking, I know from experience that it's all a bunch of talk until the parties perform.

That said, you failed to inform everyone in this message thread about a significant part of the story; that is, once I received your next PM at 5:30am PST on 2/11, the content of which signaled to me a little more clearly that you would have probably been willing to buy the lot by itself (but certainly wasn't an unequivocal acceptance of the terms I described in my ad), I knew you might feel a bit put out by how your hold got bumped, so I offered you something more valuable than the wire money in compensation - I told you that I'd try to make you happy by giving you a discount on something else I had listed or even something that I didn't have listed, and I told you that what I had listed was just "the tip of the iceberg" (that is, that I have a lot of other things I'd like to sell that I haven't listed). You didn't even bother to ask if I had more wire money, or another flying eagle cent. Instead, you took umbrage, prematurely and unnecessarily, in my humble opinion.

But you know what? I'm not peeved at you. It's water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. This is our hobby. It's supposed to be a source of fun, not angst. I don't enjoy seeing red. I do enough of that in my daily routine that I expect the time I spend in coin chat rooms to be relative mirth. But I see that this is not an uncomplicated offer and acceptance problem, and I should have empathized more with you and the disappointment you were likely to feel in finding out that you were bumped. I apologize for not doing so. My offer still stands - please let me try to compensate for selling that wire money lot to someone else. Let's start over, mate; what do you say?

Sincerely,
"Oregoncoins"

 

Guess that was simply the British variety of what people will often hear from US-based sellers when it comes to shipping to gasp, foreign countries. And to some extent it is true either way. Not necessarily because of some postal service or the other, but because - when I send items to the US or receive something from there - customs will be involved. And that does considerably delay shipping, to a point when nobody will tell you where your item is.

On the other hand, when I buy something from a domestic dealer, shipping takes a day or two, track&trace is easily possible, and returning an item is either free or inexpensive. When dealing with other EU member states, tracking may or may not work, shipping will be somewhat more expensive, but at least the item will not sit in some customs office ...

Christian

 

Quite a bit, it seems. But so did we ...

Apparently something went wrong with this deal or non-deal at some point. And while I cannot really comment on this particular case, I'm happy to see that you became or were made aware of this discussion here, and took the time to respond. The suggestion to start over sounds excellent to me. C'mon, moneyer12, it's almost Valentine's Day after all.

Christian

 

Personally, I would trust Royal Mail (in Britain) before I trusted the US Postal Service. We sent something to the US using international signed for delivery (the international equivilent of special delivery), and once it got transfered to the US, instead of it being someone sign for, as it would have been to a British customer, the US Postal Service simply stuffed it in the customer's mail box and left it! Understandably, the customer wasn't pleased, as his package contents were rather valuable and anyone could have stolen it. From what I understand, world postal services are supposed to treat mail to the same standard that has been paid for in the coutnry of origin.
And lets not forget that one of the reasons for Cameron Kiefer's recent tragic decision was because of a thief who worked at his local post office over in the states...

 

sorry for posting in the heat of the moment that is my problem sometimes i get a bit hot headed, now in the cool light of day i appologise for my rant and let bye gones be bye gones....