I just bought this counterstamp a week or two ago and thought maybe some of the gun enthusiasts on the forum might be able to help me attribute it. Brunk and Rulau both list the Demuth pieces in their references, but their attributions are tentative. Both feel this is the stamp of either gunsmith Jonathan Demuth of Bushkill, Pike Co., PA or John Demuth who practiced in Lancaster, PA. There were a number of gunsmiths named Demuth from Pike and Lancaster Counties in business during the period between 1771 and 1832 or a bit later. Apparently, the counterstamp matches, or is similiar to those found on one or two examples of flintlock and percussion rifles that have survived. There are about a dozen examples of this stamp known on various coins, the latest dated 1832. There are two distinct sizes and types of lettering, and about half the coins have additional names, words or symbols stamped on them. My example with the "P.H" on it is a new variety. I was hoping that some of you guys with references to early gun makers might be able to match this stamp to that found on a gun on an auction site or in a book. It is possible though that this counterstamp was issued by someone in a different trade, as the surname Demuth is more common than I thought. Brunk speculates that the maker may have been a die sinker or stamp cutter because so many of the known examples have additional stamps on them. Coins were often used by these tradesmen to test new stamps for look and quality. Any help you can give me on identifying the maker of this counterstamp is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys! Bruce
Curious to ask what makes you think this is the mark of a gunsmith? To me it looks like someone having fun with punches. An honest reply.
This stamp has been pretty well researched and some of the most knowledgeable people who study these (Brunk, Rulau, Bowers) feel that it's a gunsmith stamp. Apparently, there are one or two surviving rifles that have a stamp of like or similar style applied to them. If the coin's counterstamp can be matched to the rifle's stamp we can be pretty sure that the maker was a gunsmith. I say "pretty sure" because it wasn't uncommon in the 19th Century for merchants to stamp their own names on products they sold, but didn't actually manufacture themselves. Some of the marks found on silverware for example have been found to be those of silver retailers, jewelers etc., not actual silversmiths.The same holds true for some retailers of guns. Gun historian Henry Kauffman contends that John Demuth was one of these retailers, but not a gunsmith in his own right. As far as someone having some fun with a bunch of punches, that's not likely. Only a person who made these stamps for a living would have so many to "play" with. Manufacturing of them was time-consuming and expensive in those days and weren't made because there was nothing better to do. One example of a Demuth stamp has four other names punched on it in addition to his own, some of different style and size. This suggests that this example might be a test coin used by the maker to see how his stamps struck up. Brunk feels the issuer may be a stamp maker. My research also indicates that, but who knows for sure. Thanks for your interest Zeplyn. Bruce
Well now it seems as though you have at least some history on this. Perhaps you should visit a gunsmithing forum or engraving on guns forum. Something tells me you might find the info you are searching for. Best of Luck to you. Please keep us posted on what you find. I thought it was pretty cool but really have no idea.
Here's two more counterstamps I just bought with the Demuth stamp posted above. "S. Prat" - Unlisted and probably can't be identified. I started to look into this one, but found that the last name spelled with one "T" rather than two is relatively common. This one is on an 1803 Draped Bust Lg. Cent, and was probably stamped not long after the coin was minted. "*J*F*" - This one is listed in Brunk, but the issuer isn't known. It's presently documented on 16 coins or tokens, mostly Large Cents dated from 1796 to 1831. It has the look and size of a silversmith's mark, but the use of stars on silversmith marks are rare. Two distinguishing features that may help in identifying it are the squared-off base of the "J" and the points at the end of the stamp's depression. The left side has two points, while the right has only one. This a nice old stamp probably applied in the 1830's. Bruce
Fascinating! I'm hoping that someone on these forums has the info to help you out (there are quite a few people in our hobby who also collect antique firearms). Do you collect numerous counterstamped coins, or is this a new interest for you?
I've been collecting and researching counterstamps for quite a few years GeorgeM. I'm hoping also that some of the "gun guys" on the forum might be able to help me with the Demuth piece. Thanks. Bruce
