eBay vs rest of the coin selling world

The bottom line as far as value is what is something worth and what there willing to pay
It,s always been that way and always will!!

 

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I think this is a very good point. When I buy on eBay, I have to look at a lot of coins to find something worth bidding on. But that doesn't mean that eBay stinks or you can't use it as a data source. My personal opinion is that eBay is a very efficient market place. Dreck does sell, but it sells for dreck prices. Just run a search on Completed listings and it's pretty clear. Sure, there's some "someone paid THAT for THAT coin?" and a few "wow - that was a nice deal", but overall, the prices line up pretty neatly from dreck to gem.

I think what hangs me up on these types of threads are the very strong opinions that sometimes get thrown out there. The "I'm right, you're wrong" approach. I always try to remember that if I think I've got it all figured out, chances are I don't. A little humility goes a long way.

Best regards,
Ken

 

Well I am not Paul but I agree with your assessment that you could not use this methodology on toned coins becuase usually the grade on the holder is irrelevant and only the color and eye appeal determines the final value.

 

The collectors who have been burned by eBay transactions don't lie either.

Teletrade answers the phone, they will tell you about coins if you want, and their fees are anything but hidden.

One of the reasons you get higher prices on Teletrade is because of trust. With Teletrade (i.e. Spectrum), you get precisely what you won every single time. The photographs are consistent (if a bit lacking). A year from now, if a coin or slab is discovered to be countefeit, the seller will still be there.

The same cannot be said for eBay.

And the prices realized show this, IMO.

You can believe me or not. That is your choice.

 

Chris,

I use Heritage auction archives and Numismedia Price Guide to value coins. I don't use a method of cost averaging TT or E-Bay date and don't feel that I have the requisite knowledge to speak intelligently about the subject. However, I agree with your assessment that toned coins and their associated premiums would throw a monkey wrench in the cost averaging system.

 

Thanks for the list, but you didn't answer my questions:

Are you looking at the actual auctions? Asked a bit differently, what's to say that there wasn't a listing called "1875 20 Cent AU details corroded" in your average?

And one more:

Have you removed all raw coins from the average eBay pricing? After all, to include raw coins (i.e. graded by the seller, typically overgraded) would skew your eBay pricing down.

I would appreciate an answer to these three questions.

Thanks...Mike

 

I would like to add my two cents worth since it seems to me that a very important point is being overlooked. Nothing in this thread is comparing apples to apples. Ebay is NOT a true auction. It is a test of which subscribed service can enter a valid bid with fewer microseconds of time remaining. Contrast that with Heritage. A lot stays open for higher and higher bids as long as at least two people continue bidding - no matter how long that takes! Teletrade lies somewhere in between but closer to the Heritage model. The Ebay model says nothing about true value or pricing because it says nothing about what an interested party would be willing to pay in compitition with another interested party. Need I say more; how many of you have seen a coin go from $50 to $500 in the last 30 seconds?
Come on, new guys and old guys give it up. Ebay is not a valid sole source of numismatic value OR pricing - and you all know it!

 

While its different, I would not invalidate it. I buy there all of the time, I set snipes up days ahead of time. While this is somewhat different, not totally so. I buy through a rep in European auctions, and I have to tell him in advance how much I will go on a lot. Same idea, if he buys for less I am happy, if it goes over my limit I do not get it. This has happened as long as auctions have been around I believe.

Anyone who waits around on Ebay trying to bid real time are the ones not playing the game I am afraid.

Chris

 

Averaging what prices collectors pay for coins reflect the retail value of the coin. Regardless of the venue, Heritage, Teletrade, Ebay. ALL are valid.
Steve

 

the answers to your questions are included in that list.. Look carefully at that list. Those are the actual titles of each "1875 20 CENT AU" contained in the title. Where it sales "yes" are the actual listing titles sold. where it says "no" are the actual listing titles that did not sell. only 4 listings sold over 90 days, it appears that the same seller listed the same coin variety MPD-002? over and over and it did not sell.

Yes actual sales listings, sold and unsold auction and BIN's

look at the list again where says, no bid, means exactly that, seller started the auction at price that did not receive a bid. while it is possible that the listing went on to describe a corroded coin. Look at the prices realized, you will see that one coin was cleaned and sold for $179 the one at the top shows the start and finish price, that was a BIN

give me specific input data and I can search that. however if you look at the titles of the actions above you will see the answers to your questions. I'm not being smart, but read the list I posted. if a screen shot will help you understand, I can do that. just let me know specifically what you want searched.

 

really? ok .. value or worth is what YOU are willing to pay. I choose to pay 20% less on the average using eBay

 

When averaging. the general rule is to throw out the highs and lows. Now with that said.. still.... In the last 2 days I have looked up 20+ coins TT vs eBay and the results are consistently the same 20-25% less on eBay.

I can search for sales of "monster toned" or any other key word that occurs frequently in titles on eBay, but can't do that on TT.

I have scoured the data for anomalies and found little to nothing that skews the results. Cleaned is the most frequent word in eBay titles that drops the value. Both TT and eBay have links back to the auctions to check those highs and lows. Frankly, they are fairly consistent ranges, even more so when you throw the highs and lows.

Now I should add, interestingly enough... that I found certain sellers appear at the top of the list for getting more for the same coin on eBay. I attribute that to larger following of loyal buyers. GSC is top of that list.

 

as with any data produced from a query, it has to diseminated. for your perusal........

match this picture with the written list above and refer back to where I produced results from 4 different search criteria and you will see that no 1875 20 Cent AU sold in the last 90 days on eBay that had PCGS or NGC in the title.

Hope the above makes sense.

 

I agree . EBAY is NOT a valid source of Numismatic BUY/SELL financial data . Those purchases or sales have no impact on the Dealer - to - Dealer BID/ASK prices published in the CDN , which knowledgeable collectors reference for auction purposes . Generally speaking, I believe most EBAY bidders don't even know they exist. Typically, it's the Sellers personal values, which more often than not , are considerably more than your typical wholesale Dealer prices , when you actually consider the percentage of EBAY buys that are truly good for the grade coins .

 

+1... I've said it before and I'll say it again... my best coin transactions have almost exclusively come from the 'bay, where I buy a fellow collectors coin that he is dispositioning on the bay,, and most common joe collectors do. Now for that hard to get coin, ebay often requires years of searching and waiting to find that coin you gotta have,, but if you do find it, I'll bet 20-1 you get it for less than you'll pay at TT or HC,, now if you gotta have it now before you spend that extra $ on gumballs or beer, then got to HC and get it, they offer nice coins and have a wonderful selection... if not there, go to a dealer, if not there, go to TT. If not there, drop back 10 and punt.:devil:

 

Then your search is VERY skewed towards lower prices on eBay. For instance, in your list you included a cleaned example and raw examples -- where TT did not -- and those types of coins tend to have lower prices.

Bottom Line: You have not done an apples to apples comparison, but have rather chosen (intentional or otherwise) lower quality examples from eBay that have skewed the results in their favor, price-wise.

Perhaps you might try to compare problem-free certified examples (from the same TPG) in both venues.

 

So I guess trust in the seller does come into play.

 

I have no idea how GSC has, or even if they have, created a following of informed collectors on the 'bay. My experience with them was that they have very good pictures and sell less than optimal items,,, 'especially' for the grade. I don't even look at their coins anymore,, if anything, I think that thier demonstrated premium on the 'bay only serves to prove Doug's point, in that coins values on the bay should not be trusted because inexperienced buyers tend to pay toooo much for nice pictures and the preception of reptuable dealers...... I fully agree with Doug there,,, that said, and even with this overpayment accepted as a given,,, I'd still bet graded coin to graded coin of equivalent eye appeal and quality, you'll find they average out cheaper on the 'bay... and my guess is that this delta in price range is likely to be approximate to the buyer premiums charged by auction house (HC and TT), or the premium that most dealers put on thier 'retail" price for thier stock....... and if you went further and only considered experienced collector purchases from the 'bay vs. HC or TT or dealer, than I'd bet my left wally that you'd find an even greater delta in price..... and I consider most folks who visit this site as experienced, or at least well on thier way, as demonstrated by thier motivation to read and learn about the hobby. An experienced collector who browses and targets coins on the 'bay can beat the pants off of HC or TT on many coins. I pulled s vdb cent's (now certified VF) for $300, eye blasting toners (certified) for 20 bucks, and common date teen cents in high bu for 40-50 bucks..... each of which is above average eye appeal and each of which would cost at least 100% more on HC or TT.... you just don't find rips on those sites imo,,, and rips on the 'bay are becoming ever more had to find also as more and more collectors make the 'bay thier 24-7 coin show.

 

My goal, in collecting, isn't to "beat the pants" or "rip" anyone. It's to find good coins. Frankly, I don't find them on eBay, and when I do I hesitate because I often know little to nothing of the seller (i.e. trust). Maybe that's just me and my collecting tastes and my risk threshold, but I will wager that I am anything but alone in this regard.

In the end, we all have to find coins in a manner that suits each of us. What's right for you may not be right for me, and vice-versa. Some of us like eBay, some like TT, some like HA, others like going to shows or shops. Who's to say one is better than the other, but let's remember that money isn't always the ultimate arbiter in these decisions.

 

All the threads I have read and all the discourse on establishing values using eBay stores seems to be based on a false premise. Auctions are the only way sales prices can be acurately determined and it is my belief that vendors look at auction results to determine asking proces for their "buy it now" items. I t doesn;t make a lot of sense to advertise your items higher than they are selling for and you certainly want to realize optimal prices for your standing inventory. Look, I may have been around a long time, but some things Never change. And making a profit is a goal that even the "new guys" need to do in order to remain in business.

gary