eBay vs rest of the coin selling world

1875 20 CENT PIECE AU/UNC RARE!!
Yes
$437.00 $437.00 1 2010-11-03

1875 20 CENT, HIGH END CIRCULATED TO AU, A TOUGH COIN!
Yes Bid $279.99 $331.51 5 2010-12-23

1875-S Seated Liberty 20 Cent (AU++/UNC) NICE!!!!
Yes Bid $0.99 $228.05 20 2010-11-10

Precise grade AU-1875-S 20 cent coin Rare! "Cleaned"
Yes
$175.00 $175.00 1 2010-12-24

1875-P NGC AU-58 Twenty (20) cent piece Only 37K Minted
No
$995.00 $0.00 2010-12-04

1875-P Twenty (20) Cent Piece Nice XF/AU
No
$460.00 $0.00 2010-11-14

1875-P Twenty (20) Cent Piece Choice XF/AU Nice Color
No
$455.00 $0.00 2010-10-25

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No
$385.00 $0.00 2010-11-07

1875-P Twenty (20) Cent Piece Nice XF/AU
No Bid $460.00 $0.00 2010-10-15

1875 20 CENT PIECE - AU TO MS QUALITY - A REAL BEAUTY!
No Bid $349.99 $0.00 2010-12-19

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $235.00 $0.00 2010-12-05

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $205.00 $0.00 2010-12-26

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $200.00 $0.00 2011-01-02

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $270.00 $0.00 2010-11-14

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $260.00 $0.00 2010-11-21

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $233.00 $0.00 2010-12-12

1875-S Twenty (20) Cent Coin Beautiful AU MS MPD-002
No Bid $225.00 $0.00 2010-12-19

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

In Concurrence With The Observation

WOW!!

Although I concur with your observations, and have done the same testing with products I sell in various venues, there are times that we probably need to consider the biases of casual observers. I hope you took your medication before generating that post.

I've successfully bought/sold on the internet for ~15 years, and constantly do research in what to sell, how, when, and the current "mood". I've come to use eBay as the standard for normalcy of market interest in Generic precious metals and Numismatic items. I've won several bets with others about buying/selling because of eBay trends, but have learned with humility that the trends are unpredictable, and generally find difficulty in predicting unless there's a relatively large current sampling. I find that eBay best provides that.

The lots of coins I sell are minimally 4 figure, and geared to informed buyers generally unwilling to gamble, who've been successful in their fields of endeavor because of acuity and perseverance. These individuals generally know what they're buying or selling, and current market trends, often meeting with a computer in hand for negotiation. They often have bookmarks for the various sites, but a common denominator is the advanced eBay search which generally reflects current market parameters.

I have found this eBay "advantage" so useful that I could sell more than I've available time to deliver. I'm very happy that others are using the resources they tout, because I outsell/buy (i.e. best net return) the majority using my eBay models in buying/selling on eBid, eBay, craigslist, etc..

EBay has helped me to determine what sells, the best spiel, current market pricing, how to "package" various commodities, and where to sell the various items.

I hope that you're not sharing this information with many, as it appears sellers are oblivious to this resource, but maybe as other buyers, your awareness is more acute.

I believe you are more correct about some commodities, and even though I buy/sell across the general spectrum of Numismatic items, there may be areas where other resources better reflect specific PM/Numismatic interests.

Just the observations of an "OLD TIME collector". :thumb:

 

^^^ NO means it didn't sell. there is a huge amount of statistical information. DO YOU KNOW THAT I CAN TELL YOU WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK AND AT WHAT TIME ARE THE BEST DEALS!!!?


Technology.... use it or get left behind

 

I didn't read any more than this ...... I can't.. are you familiar with terapeak? for the dollar volume you are doing just go get it, you can thank me later.

garbage search tool..... comparitively. serious, I am blown away by what I have learned. PM me I bet I can give you stats on your own sales that you had no idea of.

you have my respect sir.. btw I sell on eBay too. imagine trying to figure out how to sell 20 new Markowsky handbags with tags.... lol True story!

hahahaha that was this morning during a moment of clarity, I don't take my meds until about 1-3pm.

 

Back around 2006 I knew some venture capitalists, most took a hard hit playing with funny money. If I get another bug up my butt, it would be fun to take a stab at rocking this archaic coin collecting world. lol I have some ideas, but I am better at directing than experimenting myself. waaaaay toooooo addddd...

 

I see where you're coming from, Eye, as far as trying to average out prices to come up with value. I've been asked by people in my community to appraise coin and other collections, and though I'm no professional appraiser, I believe I use the same basic methods they employee. Thats a matter of taking auction and retail results from many different venues and averaging the numbers. The problem is, thats not always an accurate value of an item. If there were a set value, there would be no need to average anything, nor would there be competing venues trying to sell the same things for different prices. I may average a piece at $500 because sometimes it sold for $600 and sometimes it sold for $400. But that doesn't mean one might not sell for $1000 or $50 on any given day. Value is based on buyer demand. Even the best expert in the field can't predict one day from the next with absolute accuracy what a buyer will do. So, in retrospect, yes, Ebay, Teletrade, Heritage, your local shop...are all viable resources for determining value on paper, but should never be used a sole means of placing a price on anything, unless you happen to be the IRS in which case I've said too much.
Guy

 

Cole guy, I thought about what would I tell people about the values of their coins, if asked. I am confident that I can mine information on coins and realize that estimate, if I had to sell them, within a couple percentage points. The problem with estimation of value, is sort of related to what those guys do on pawn stars do. Offer 50% of their best educated guess.

so whats it worth? depends on what you want to use that value for. tell a person a coin is worth $100 bucks give or take 10% and they say OK $100.. nope it doesn't work that way. I don't want the coin.... OH Okay will you sell it for me? sure.... but $50 bucks is all you will get for it... they say "what? you said $100" then you got to get into the ........" well.... cost to list and sell fees run 20% and I want to make something for my time."" shipping costs ....

and so the story goes.... what is the coin worth... it is worth what you are willing to pay for it...

 

agreed. Whats weird is that I would think the educated buyer would not want to pay more, would want a seller they can talk to, would want reasonable or competitive service/shipping fees. I don't think casual coin collectors know about Teletrade... Heritage is for the upper echelon. bowers and marina stacks.. I only just ventured into those an.. aww forget it.... lol

 

Doug,

If you don't care that the person you are dealing with believes you and your response is intended to benefit the others who are reading the thread, then wouldn't the proof that you post be directed at those people as well? Why do you think I post examples in our discussions? It certainly isn't to convince you, because as you have stated "it's a waste of time to try and prove anything to somebody who doesn't want to listen."

And if you really believe this statement:

then why not back it up. Create an ALT for yourself and see if the members of this forum will accept what you say without your reputation, 30K posts, and Administrator title. You will find rather quickly, that you will need that proof in order to build credibility with the other members.

 

I'm not going to read the whole thread. I'll start with Rule #1: No one wins an argument on the Internet.

In any case, there is no reason to get upset over a difference of opinion in what is supposed to be a fun hobby. Step back, get some perspective. There are a thousand things that folks post as gospel, that I believe is baloney. I'm sure the opposite is true, that stuff I take as truth others think is Kool-Aide or worse.

So it goes. It ain't worth getting bent out of shape over. It gets worse when the subject turns away from coins, but even with coins, I have seen way too many folks get into vicious disputes with arguments spanning hundreds of posts, back and forth, over several weeks over some of the most petty stuff imaginable. These arguments can ruin the hobby experience for them and others. Again, this is a hobby. It is supposed to be fun. Enjoy. If it isn't fun, take a step back, take a break. Remember Rule #1 (no one wins an argument on the Internet.) and that everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how wrong they might be

As an aside, I think the prices realized on Ebay or Teletrade or Heritage are all valid data points. The caveat for me, is that unfortunately, Ebay seems to have become the venue of choice for sellers of fake slabs. That makes me uneasy about buying there and if I have the slightest misgivings about a listing, I won't bid, won't buy. I no longer bid on Ebay coins over a certain value from unknown sellers (sellers that I don't know, or at least know a third person who knows the seller), but that is just me. The other auction sites have more safe guards against fake slabs because the companies take possession of the coins.

 

Uh........ I don't view this thread as an argument. no one has argued that the facts that have been produced are wrong. Absolutely agreed that this is the internet and the opinions are worth what you paid for them .. ZERO..

All I was trying to say that on coin collecting boards I see a high amount of unsubstantiated opinions that were formed by yesterday, or experience from 10 years. Most boards talk about the here and now. It's helpful to know history so that it can be improved upon. yes / no?

My point/opinin is that if advise is being given from someone who is relying on their experiences, that they should be able and willing to back up the advise with supporting factual information.

For discussion purposes you are worried about fake coins in fake slabs. Why not enter the cert number into the look up services that TPG's offer? You have 45 days after the purchase to file a claim. thats plenty of time to do diagnostics. Furthermore presuming that these slabs don't get into the hands of dealers you trust, is to also presume that they do the diagnostics on every coin the get? and you know this how?

See what I am getting at? I think you are more worried about the hassle of filing a dispute than you are of actually getting a counterfeit? I am just guessing here. Each venue TT HA and others serve a niche market, whether it be rarities or just super expensive coins. They don't churn the amount of coinage that eBay does. so regardless whether you are educated coin collector or not, whether you are a collector of rarities, or whether every coin you own is over 1k each. You can not deny, nor ignore that the best place, with the biggest selection, best average closing prices with sellers held to performance standards that you can talk t...., who are going to ship quick and who are going to go that extra mile to make you happy is eBay.

As a test in prep for this thread, HA sent me a new user survey, I filled it out - it was not a check box survey - so I told them I wouldn't be able to pay, what are my options? DO you know that they have not answered me in 3 days? TT - I asked ahead if I bought if I bought 50 $6 items that they had for sale forthe shipping cost . I also asked whether there was any break on the $8 per lot on quantities. No answer! yet. I asked DL also how long I could take to pay. NO ANSWER.. Yesterday I asked an eBay seller if he would wait until Tuesday to get paid instead of the 72 hours as his listing states and he said sure, within 1 hr of my email..

Do I need to post the emails and messages to back up the above?


so tell me what are the VALID data points on those other sites? that the same coin on the average is going to cost more, that they don't answer emails, that they will charge excessive fees ? I am interested in learning something new about those sites comparatively....

 

You stole my post! lol

Every Mod I know has aliases, often it is several. On one site we are actually required to post our opinions under aliases. Even though it was non paying job, with subsidized or free product it was obvious why the alias. Too much potential liability, to post anything that might be considered inflammatory. ie. op ed opinions etc..

 

New users don't know you, but they trust you because of your position as an administrator. If you don't believe that, Doug, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

It doesn't matter what they should do, what matters is what they do. As an administrator, you're in a position of power and respect, and I know you're aware of that, but sometimes I think it slips your mind a bit.

Compare yourself to, say, a LEO. Should you trust a LEO based purely on his position? Probably not, but the reality is that many do purely because of their position and the accountability that people think accompanies it. In reality, there's tons of dirty cops out there in corrupt districts that have no accountability.

 

I believe you already said it best, Doug. People can either just believe what you say, or get off their lazy rear ends and prove themselves what you say is right. The problem I see is, most people won't put forth an ounce or their own effort to put what you say to the test to see for themselves. If they expect you to continually provide all the work already done for them, then they don't deserve your years of knowledge to begin with. There are a lot of people's opinions here who I respect a great deal. But I always use that information to further my own knowledge by putting it to work instead of just gathering dust because I don't trust it's authenticity. This hobby is about learning, and if people refuse to learn then there's not much hope for their future involvement.
Guy

 

I don't particularly care, either. I'm just stating the rationale behind it.

 

Well I am sure I speak for everyone hoping that everyone commenting here continues to post. Reading divergent opinions always have to clarify thoughts, and that is why I come here, not just knowledge but challenges to what I believe and why.

Concerning venues and average pricing, I would throw out purchase efficiency and quality as well being two non qualifiable inputs. Lets just take TT and Ebay, though its more readily shown in higher end venues. To buy from Ebay, you have to go through pages of dreck, Chinese scams, sellers who may or may not be professional, etc. I would say to an average person its more of a hassle or chance to get ripped off than Teletrade. Therefor, one would expect Teletrade to have higher prices realized. Teletrade is one firm, professional, and you have a pretty high degree of confidence you are looking at real coins. That counts for a lot. I know in ancients if I just want to buy a nice coin CNG will have them. They may not be cheap, but they are nice quality and authentic, and easy to buy from.

This is just theory on why TT might be higher, I have stated I do not use them, but use other professional firms sometimes when I do not have the energy to fight through Ebay dreck page after page.

Chris

P.S. Paul, I thought you at least would have brought up why even price averaging is not perfect for coming up with values. Every coin is unique, and a couple of nicely toned coins in one venue versus another will completely throw off any comparison pricing only based upon grade, right?