eBay vs rest of the coin selling world

I logged on this morning to research some things about Teletrade and came across a thread unrelated to my research that made my blood boil.

:hail:This is a call "out" to those who spew stuff with out backing it up with facts.:hail:

I have tried my best to reason and explain things I know in a PM. The response was believe what you want and I will believe what I want. Nothing wrong with that until those beliefs are forced upon others from a position of authority.

I have read threads here on CoinTalk that are very frustrating. They are frustrating because "pillars" frequently post "stuff" without backing it up with facts. They post as gospel.... Do not question me. "I have been doing this a long time" I see this stereotypical behavior A LOT amongst old time collectors in this hobby directed towards those who are new to collecting.

No wonder. coin collecting doesn't have Laser ID and gas chromatography as SOP. No wonder old time collectors shun the idea of possibly being able to examine a coin from images - that it can only be done in hand. There is an old guard firmly in control of the coin hobby who beat down the uninitiated.

I have been banned from message boards for stating facts. WHY IS THAT?

Here is what I am insisting on as an individual who is passionate about coin collecting. As an individual who has the whereforall and stones to question authorities. I am suggesting that if you are an OLD TIME collector/dealer and you expect everyone to believe you then you need to back up your statements with facts when questioned by a noob. Your 40 years experience is exactly that, old experience. Get with the times or get left behind. There are a lot of young members on here and I hope that they question what their gut is telling them is wrong.

Let's use an example:

That above is flat out wrong. EVERY TIME I CHECK - I DO NOT FIND the above to be true. I am sure there are exceptions. The numbers do not lie. I contend that while the above is not an intentional lie. It is the equivalent of spewing unsubstantiated stuff that is not true.

The above quote is out of context, however it is from a thread where the prevalence and frequent intensity of the posts from a pillar of this community, were all written along the lines, DO NOT USE eBay.

This is just flat out wrong.

But hey! Let me practice what I am preaching. lets take facts from eBay and Teletrade - I'll use a popular and familiar coin and check the statement:

Lets use an NGC 1909VDB MS66RD Lincoln Wheat Cent NGC Population of 1139 - NGC Price guide of $325

Teletrade has had 3 sales in 90 days. I presume Teletrade has a 100% sell through?
11/10 @ $242
12/07 @ $206
12/08 @ $230

Average = $226



eBay during the same period has had 4 sales on 12 Listings. (33% sell through ) EVERY COIN with a starting price of $229 (the TT average) did not sell.
10/13 @ $202
11/07 @ $175
11/18 @ $172
12/20 @ $167

Average = $179



So I ask, if my first random search turned up these results, where as a buyer, educated or not, might you now be inclined to look for coins to buy?

If you have read this far and can see the content in spite of my tone then;

In the spirit of debate and in the event I might be wrong. (I only researched this one coin,) I knew the above to be true in my one year experience with coin collecting. I ask for you to post common coins that you are interested in finding and I will give you the facts for you to make a decision on where to look to make your buying decisions.

Thanks for listening and good luck in your search!

 

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I like TT, and HC, and ebay....and feel each can be used to calculate an honest estimate for a coins worth. It also be my experience (stated with no evidence), that in terms of buying a solid graded coin at a good price with regularity that ebay is the place to get coins... HC and TT just kill the buyer with the buyer's premium. That said, I find that to find those hard to find coins that you "must have", then you can either search ebay for a year to two (weekly at least), or submit and go to HC or TT which tend to have those harder to find coins in nice grade more frequently. My personnal preference for shopping coins:
* ebay #1
* HC #2
* Dealers #3
* TT #4
.... there is good and bad in each of them,,, and all the coin buying warnings are applicable to each of them in some degree (i.e. - you should know what your shopping for, how to grade, how to detect fakes, etc...)

 

Oh! I should add, please don't say that TT has nicer coins. That also is not true, not in my limited experience. Matter of fact, the coins from TT not only cost more, they are of lesser quality for the same grade label than coins I have gotten from eBay.

I can and will post pictures and sales data from my purchase if I have to. I have the facts. I believe that sellers/consignors might be more inclined to dump their crap at places like TT since they are insulated from direct buyer contact very unlike eBay where sellers are held to performance standards.

 

Agreed, all bets are off on raw coinage. BTW HC= Heritage, I have been using HA = Heritage Auctions????? What is HC Also, giving credit where it is due, there are some smaller auction sites like David Lawrence that seem to be more in line with eBay


Hey Baha.. give me a rare coin to search for. I want to try something out. I got a new toy! errrrrrrrr productivity tool!

 

1913 V Nickel.


Just kidding, how about... 1916-D Merc. Should be plenty of data on those.

 

Unfortunatley you cant find out everything and every item your looking for! somethings
Are just to scarce! you can only use the best sources available to you and go from there!

 

Try 1875 twenty cent..... I've been bird doggin' that coin on the 'bay for at least 3 years... they are there, but the one's I've found in that AU'ish to low Msi'sh grade have all looked like crap. Same story with TT, except that they cost around $150 more for the same crap. HC (heritage coin), has had at least 4 in the past 4 years that turned my head. The first one I'm still kicking myself for not getting (wanted to shop more at the time, dammit)... the other 3 have all driven premiums that I didn't want to give...
.... still a priority date for me,,, but I want a great deal too,,, if I don't have any luck on the 'bay in the next couple years then I'll probably go after it on HC.

 

All I will say is that I use Ebay ended auctions as a price guide personally and it has served me well as a part time dealer becuase I am selling on that venue. While I may not agree with Doug on a lot of things I do agree that he has a right to his opinion regardless of whether that differes from my own. He may have had a different experience then us with regards to what he felt was inaccurate prices realized on Ebay auctions so he feels more comfortable with Heritage archives? I personally use both and it gives me the best of both worlds on the more common stuff and on the true rarities you pretty much have to rely on Heritage archives.

I once told Doug that his status as being the site admin put more weight on his opinion here on the forums whether he wanted to believe it or not. I believe this is just another case where a poster is thinking Doug is a subject matter expert on all things coins and I would submit that I don't even think Doug would agree to that...nor I of myself. I have my specialties and I am sure Doug opinion would carry more weight on coin series he routinely collected in the past and less towards coins he didn't collect...same as the rest of us.

I do feel Doug can be very wreckless with his statements of fact at times based on the weight his opinion may carry with some her especially the newbies but we all have to take everything posted on these forums with a grain of salt regardless of who posted it. I think self education is the best way to go...looks like you did a little research and found that your opinion may differe from Doug's...nothing wrong with that

 

My list of preference for coin buying is the following order. EBay, a couple of online dealers, David Lawrence Auction and Heritage Auctions. I have used TeleTrade a few times in the past but did not like the experience. Lately I have stopped buying TPG's graded coins so I am limited to buying Ebay and my online dealers whom I trust.

For pricing research on coins I am looking at buying, I used about 60% to 70 % of NumisMedia FMV Price Guide, ebay completed auctions and Heritage sell archives depending on the series and the coin to determine what I will pay.

This works for me and I do listen to other opinions and then form my opinion on how to conduct myself when buying or selling.

 

EEW, I read your entire post. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make (outside you don't trust/believe GDJMSP). Can you net it out for me?

 

p.s. it makes sense that average sales for a coin would be higher on TT than eBay -- for several reasons. However, I'm not sure that's the point you're trying to make....

 

Are you saying that you obtained your eBay data today as a normal advanced search for "NGC 1909VDB MS66" on eBay? If not, what was the source of this information? And when did you compile this information?

 

too much.. narrow it down to tpg , or grade or something

Avg. Price:
$258.05
?
Avg. Shipping:
$4.07
Listings:
1,168
Sell-Through:
57.96%

 

terapeak.. instantaneous. you can look up to 90day periods anywhere over the last 2 years!

 

give me a grade.. too many results


October 11, 2010 - January 08, 2011
Avg. Price:
$143.91
?
Avg. Shipping:
$3.36
Listings:
1,051
Sell-Through:
41.67%

 

and why would that be? people don't realize the BP? even with that subtracted you can get the same coin on ebya

OH! TT does not include the shipping cost in the price realized. so those are not the true costs

 

pcgs vg08.

 

short version.

when an OG is questioned by a new recruit. a beat down does nothing but alienates the recruit to another gang

 

very nice solid results!

search criteria = 1916 D Mercury PCGS VG

October 11, 2010 - January 08, 2011
Avg. Price:
$1,096
Start Price:
$0.99
Listings:
4
Sell-Through:
100.00%

 

Wow - first and foremost coin in hand is always better than a picture. Pictures can make a bad coin look good and a good coin look bad. But the coin in hand in good lighting is always the best.

Second when it comes to pricing you have to look at the coin - was that $160 dollar coin an over graded coin, bad pictures or what drove the price. Basically I believe no matter what price guide you use it is just an estimate. Throw toning in and it becomes even more unpredictable. So not all 66's should sale at the same price. As for where to get the best prices - it could be any number of places. I like heritage first, dealers second and ebay and tt are last. BUT you could probably do better by going to coin shows. And no just seeing the prices do not count - I want to see the coin that went with the auction.

Doug's experience is what carries weight not being an admin. You said after 1 year of collecting - lets revist this thread after 5 more years, then 10 years. Some of the things Doug and others have stated have come true based off my collecting experience. While I may not always agree with them I do listen and try to learn something.

I will also throw in that from day 1 of my collecting I have said computers will never be able to grade coins. A computer will never be able to grasp some of the nuances of grading - weak strike is just one example.