1855 $3 Princess Gold... real or fake and grade?

Agreed prolawn_care. I was very fortunate to have the oppurtunity to have three gold coins in my hands at the same time. The advice and opinions I received here on CoinTalk
were invaluable. All three proved out to be genuine and attributable by NGC. But reading about the coins and doing the diagnostics gave me the confidence to make this decision.
It was a blast of a ride for a LMC freak like me. I was way, way out of my league taking on this responsibility. Thank GOD for CTers that are so generous in sharing what they have experienced and know.

zeke

 

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The cotton boils (I think that is what they are) at the ends of the wreath are made up of individual round "dots" that are linked together. When the dies are lapped the dots get a little smaller and separated and they do start "floating in space". Especally out towards the point of the boil. This is very commonly seen on type II and III gold dollars as well.

 

Zeke,

1854-D $3. NICE! Isn't that the only $3 minted at Dahlonega?

 

Conder, they are called 'cotton bolls', not 'boils'. (Ever heard of a boll weevil? They attack cotton bolls and can quickly ruin a cotton crop.)

The wreath on the reverse of the $3 Princess is the same as that used on the $1 Gold (Type II and III) and the Flying Eagle Cent.

I grew up on a farm so I may have an advantage when it comes to identifying farm crops. Starting at the bottom of the wreath and working up I see wheat, ears of corn, tobacco leaves with a cotton boll between the second and third tobacco leaves, and topped off with an unknown grain at the top. The unknown grain at the top is conical in shape. Notice how the individual grains are not 'floating in space' on this normal genuine example (shown on Wikipedia).


I suppose if the reverse die were lapped enough the individual grains could 'float in space'.

 

My apologies for being unclear.

Of course the grains are part of the design. Lapping the die can, and often does, remove some detail features. In this case, some of the kernels were lost creating the effect of remaining kernels separated from the herd.

In other series (draped bust), die lapping sometimes results in lost stems, leaving berries orphaned - similar to the grains on this coin. It's quite common.

 

Very true, 900fine. The same effect can occur when a counterfeit coin is struck from transfer dies that don't pick up the finer details.

 

I'm with Leadfoot. I can't condemn this coin as counterfeit from those photos... but I'm on an iPhone, and they aren't coming across properly.

 

Yep. It also tends to give blobby details, which some folks feel plague this piece.

 

Hobo makes a vital point. And since the transfer dies are poor relative to the sacrificed host coin, counterfeiters often tool the dies, trying to restore lost detail. That's why one should look for tooling marks in the most finely detailed areas - including denticles.

 

That's where the communication broke down. You were talking about grainy surfaces and the other guy was talking about the "grains" at the ends of the wreath.

Thanks for the spelling correction. I thought boils was wrong but wasn't sure of the correct term. (I originally wrote boles. Still wrong but closer in pronunciation. I am familiar with the weevils but wasn't sure how to spell Boll.)

 

Yes, only 1120 of them were minted with one set of dies. The diagnostics of die clash marks, doubling and obverse and reverse of weak dentil strikes at certain clock positions are well documented for this coin.

 

I definitely understand your concern; those are classic symptoms of a cast fake.

I just can't tell from these photos. Sometimes, I think those bumps are artifacts of the photography, with funky lighting playing tricks with minor surface abrasions (and even the Airtite's optics / surface).

Personally, I don't feel the coin has the blobby, sloppy details of a cast fake or a transfer die.

 

Would a counterfeit be made of Gold ?

If not weight should tell if it is a fake.

 

I'll try to get better pictures, but those that are posted are from my 3rd attempt. I took it at night under a hood, so I'll try different lighting and will post if there are any improvements. But I really have my own doubts that this is a cast counterfeit. And 900 fine might be able to reverse my own opinion of the coin's authenticity... so pics coming soon, I hope.

 

Well, in Charles Larson's book "Numismatic Forgery", he's quite explicit in his description of how counterfeiters utilize well worn twenty dollar gold pieces to make a number of smaller denomination (but numismatically more valuable) coins. The weight and alloy are therefore perfect.

 

Many of the old, poor counterfeits were not gold or were gold plated or were less than 90% gold. The counterfeiter made his money by shorting the buyer on the gold content of the coin. Many modern counterfeits exactly meet Mint standards for the gold coins. In other words, the coin will be 90% gold and 10% copper and have the proper diameter and weight. Some counterfeiters accomplish this by melting a common low-grade Double Eagle and making planchets for smaller denomination gold coins (e.g., Quarter Eagles and Half Eagles). The counterfeiter makes his money not by shorting the buyer on the gold content of the coin but by selling the coin to a collector who pays a numismatic premium for the coin. By making smaller denomination counterfeit coins the counterfeiter increases his profit by selling selling several coins rather than one. (One Double Eagle provides enough gold alloy to make 8 Quarter Eagles, 4 Half Eagles, etc.)

 

Mmmmmm... looks like chocolate!

 

Yes, in general modern counterfeits are made of gold - the perfect alloy of 90% gold, 10% copper. As mentioned above, the best way to get that is buy worn, common date $10s and $20s - which can be had for melt value - and melt 'em.

Since the value of an 1855 $3 transcends the bullion value many times over, paying full price for real gold is no problem since the resulting coin fits mint specs on weight and diameter - the easiest and least skillful things to check.

 

Exactly. Well said.

A double eagle supplies enough gold to make 20 gold dollars; that's one reason why gold dollars are so commonly counterfeited. In addition, their small size makes them a bit tougher to grade and detect problems.