I own numerous ASE's that are graded NGC PF69, but truthfully I have no idea what that really means because I can't find any written standards or guidelines of grading. Are there guidelines for what causes one coin to be PF68, an other PF69 or PF70? I looked at my graded coins under a 5x or 10x loop and they look perfect to my untrained eye, so I would like to understand what the professional graders are looking at when they do their evaluations. How are Professional Graders trained? There are many discussion topics on this Forum asking for assistance in grading. The folks who "know" learned how? Some folks pay a large premium for a PF70, and I have no idea how those coins are better than my PF69. When we purchase a coin at a specific grade what should our expectations be?
The difference between a PF69 and a PF70 is very difficult for a novice to discern. However, if you look closely you should be able to tell the difference between a PF68 and a PF69/70. The PF68 is going to look gorgeous but not quite perfect. Unlike the PF69/70, you should be able to identify some defect or blemish on the PF68 with the naked eye.
PF70's will have no flaws whatsoever. If you look closely at your 69's using a loupe, particularly in the cameo (frosted) areas of the devices, you may notice very minute nicks which will appear shiny under bright light. Sometimes they aren't much bigger than a pinpoint and you have to tilt the coin back and forth under the light to see them, but that is all that is needed to lower the grade from 70 to 69. Every once in a while, a grader might miss some of these flaws, but it isn't too often that they will be graded 70 because they would most likely be caught in QC. In my opinion, paying a large premium for any bullion coin graded 70 is a waste of money, and if you can't tell the difference between a 69 and a 70, you are better off buying the 69. The only expectation you should have is that the 69's you buy should only cost a little more than the melt value. Chris
There are many, many books written on how to grade coins of a particular series. But there are only 3 (based on modern standards) that I know of that were written as guides as how to grade any US coin. They are - Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins 6th edition, PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection 2nd edition, and How To Grade US Coins by James Halperin (this one is available on-line in its entirety - http://www.coingrading.com/ ). As for how professional graders are trained - they are trained the same way anybody is, by studying coins. There is no school, there is no training program, but there are some classes you can attend at the ANA. But attending those classes will not make you a professional grader. They will only give you the basics. You get to be a professional by studying coins and only by studying coins. Some people can accomplish this in just a few years while for others it will take decades. It differs with each person and the aptitude they have for it. It also depends upon how much work and effort you put into it.
Chris, Unfortunately I'm paying much more than you are for my PF69 coins. I try not to pay much over the Numismedic wholesale price. Where are you buying your PF69 coins for spot?
I don't buy them at all. I'm just saying that if you are paying more than about 10% over spot for PF69's, you will probably never recover your money unless the price of silver rises substantially. For the sake of discussion, let's say that you paid $40 per coin and the price of silver is $30. A dealer would probably offer you $32 on a good day. In order for you just to break even, silver would have to rise to $50 an ounce. If you doubt this, take your PF69's to a dealer and ask him/her what they would offer for them. If you have a dealer in your area who is willing to pay you more, keep it to yourself, because if more people know about him, he will eventually run out of money. Chris
@cpm9ball Well, I didn't buy my PF69 proofs at a dealer because I didn't want to pay retail and I have no intention of selling to a dealer because as you mentioned he might on a good day pay the spot price. I have several 1988 proof Canadian Calgary silver dollars that each contain 1 troy oz of silver (they each weigh 1.08oz). My dealer's generous offer was 80% of the spot price. I realized at that moment that I will not live long enough to realize a profit if I pay my dealers premium and sell at his discounts. I appreciate that he is trying to make a living, but I need to take care of me, and I expect to realize a profit on all my purchases.
Are you a collector or an investor? If, as you say, you "expect to realize a profit on all (your) purchases" you should stop buying coins today. In general, coins are a bad investment. Ignoring the fluctuations in the price of PMs, it is VERY difficult for a collector to break even on a coin, much less turn a profit. This is because collectors generally buy at retail and sell at wholesale. Even if you sell your coin at auction (and the coin brings close to retail) you will have to pay 15% or more in auction fees. I am a coin collector. I collect coins for pleasure. If I make a profit when I sell a coin that is all the better.
Dave - what is your reason for buying coins ? As Hobo said, if you are buying coins to try and make money then you might as well stop now and find something else to do.
LOL...You guys aren't any fun! Doesn't everyone who throws money into any collectible such as old cars, watches, coins or Dinky toys tell themselves, and their significant other, that these items are appreciating in value. Just watch the PBS TV show Antiques Road Show. One of the aspects of collecting that I enjoy is trying to find a coin that appears under appreciated it's current owner, at a price that will allow me to own and sell it at a future date, to someone who appreciates it more than me.
Dave, We did not mean to imply that you cannot make money by cherrypicking coins. If you can buy a coin that is undervalued (which is I think you meant by "under appreciated") you most certainly stand a better chance of turning a profit.
