opionions on this half dime

Harshly cleaned? ... Then perhaps artificially toned?
I dont recall seeing such symmetrical (similar) toning front to back.
I do like they way the toning looks though - i think it's attractive.

Any opinions are appreciated.

 

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You took the words right out of my mouth Brown. Envelope Toning .

 

envelope toning and I don't see evidence of a harsh cleaning....I think its a desirable NT coin???

 

Do you own this coin?

 

PCGS came back with an MS-60 grade ... however I have seen so many shenanigans from PCGS re: toned and cleaned coins ... that I dont really trust them anymore

I actually have more faith in you guys (and gals)!

 

Very generous .

 

Nope the coin looks completely NT an album toned to me and I have seen hundreds of coins with similar toning colors and patterns in top tier holders over the years so at the very least they are market acceptable. I don't believe in micro grading coins and that goes for the toning as well...the small untoned spot on the obverse could easily be explained by the presence of some sort of grease or chemical that splashed on the surface of the coin or planchet before it left the mint which inhibited the toning process....if the rest of the surface looks NT and you see a spot that is untoned my mind doesn't automatically discount the rest of the coin because of a spot?

And when reviewing the reverse with the blue on top or intermingled with the rose ....to me this is even more indication that the coin is NT...but you see it as making the coin suspect but I have owned numerous examples with the very look that I had provanance for going back many dacades so I know they were stored in envelopes and developed that type of toning. Look there is no book that says toning has to look exactly the same on every coin just general guidelines based on what we typically see. The very random nature of toning is due to the myriad of storage methods and conditions used by expert and novice collectors alike and there are going to be some anomolies from time to time but I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water like some of the tpgs and lots of collectors are doing these days.

I would say as much as 5% to 10% of the coins being bagged for questionable toning are probably 100% legit but they just look a bit different than the norm so collectors and TPGs are going to error on the side of caution....I can respect that as there is a lot of money involved.

Here is an envelope toned Morgan I used to own that has very similar colors including the baby blue and rose toning which appears on the coin posted..also notice the lighter golds and reds towards the rims on the obverse....for me the coin above is unquestionably NT envelope toning and the obverse spot is an after thought at best...since their are just as many legit ways it could be on the coin as there are reasons it shouldn't be

This coin was purchased by me raw on Ebay and several years after purchase I sent it off to NGC and it came back MS65*:

 

I agree with Kryptonite that I have seen multiples of this toning. Looks like folder or mainla envelope toning.

 

I see nothing wrong with the coin in question, which appears to be envelope toning. Unfortunately, doctors can replicate this look. The TPGs will likely call it ma MA and I think it is likely NT, but I would call it QT and attractive to be safe.

 

You sure Doug? The circle on the obverse corresponds to where the smaller fields opens up to a larger field, (not sure if I am explaining it well), and I have see kinda wonky things happen there like this. Its fine for you to be suspicious, but if I saw this for sale it wouldn't make me hesitate. Maybe I should nowadays, but in the past I would have not hesitated to buy it.

 

Those are the exact spots that caught my eye; personally I'd stay away from this coin, but that's me ( I'm real picky when it comes to seateds).

 

Fair enough, I wouldn't buy it unless in hand as well. I was just referring to swirls or circles of toning, which I have on some seated and capped bust original coins. Where the lettering opens up to the field, weird things toning wise can happen, and I have some identical circle tones like on the obverse here, always where the lettering "opens up" if that is a good enough term. In hand I would just like to look at the blue mark on the bottom reverse a little, but that can happen as well.

 

It is interesting toning for sure from a technical point of view. I'd really have to see it in hand to know for sure NT or AT.

 

thanks for all the feedback ... it's an interesting debate and you all gave me a lot of food for thought.

Just for comparitive purposes ... here is an 1880 SL Proof

This also has some circular patterns (to the left of the date) and very sharp gradients of colors.
This was graded by NGC as PF65.

Not saying it's AT or NT based on that ... but its interesting to compare.

 

I agree with you but it does seem to have been cleaned and retoned to me. It is still acceptable and to me, it looks nice.