2009 Proof A.S.E. now on sale

The 1922 Plain was produced. Not intentionally, just like the 55/55, but it does exist. Neither of the two coins produced by Moonlight Mint exists.

Remember, the minting of coinage was intended as an official assay of metals commonly used for trade. Both coins produced by the Moonlight Mint are the original government assay.

Your 55/55 example above would be impossible unless someone created a 55/55 die. Otherwise the original impression would be nearly wiped out witht he second strike as shown in the photo's I provided of the 2009 SAE.

Both coins are still considered legal tender but with altered surfaces. The same as a coin with its surfaces wiped clean from wear or a coin with the mintmark scraped off. Neither coin is marketed as original and the collecting community is fully aware that neither coin officially exists. As stated earlier, these are simply fantasy pieces which is not new in the coin collecting arena.



The above coins were NOT produced by the US Mint.

 

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Well asking and not getting an answer from who you expect to get an answer from does not make it right and certainly doesn't make it legal!! I could be wrong, but I think Mr Carr may have messed up this time. Also, I have a hard time believing that Carr doesn't have an inside connection at the US Mint!! After all he has designed the reverse of a couple of quarters and bought the Grabener coin press from the US Mint in Denver!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just sayin'!!

 

The HSN website states that these coins were made with a retired Denver press. It says nothing about the dies that leads me to believe that they came from the US Mint. IDK if that makes these coins any more legal or illegal, but just that they come from HSN, a TV Coin site, tells me that it's a scam to make a lot of money.

Buy the coin if you really want to, but I'd rather fill the hole in the album with a bullion 2009 ASE, and just move on.

Bruce

 

This seems criminal... And a sin, Never ever EVER buy that coin!

 

What's the population of China again... (jk... kinda)

 

Do you think Daniel Carr will start taking orders for A.S.E. collectors ? I sure would like him to turn some of my 1995 uncirculated A.S.E. Into 1995-W dcams lol http://coins.shop.ebay.com/Coins-Paper-Money-/11116/i.html?_kw=eagle&_kw=1995-w&_kw=dcam&_kw=silver

 

Wouldn't that be something if HSN stopped selling those coins and because we're talking about them so much they actually appreciated in value and became huge collector coins worth big money? Nah, I don't think so! What do you think??

 

Yes, his designs for the New York and Rhode Island State Quarters was accepted by the US Mint but he did not buy the Grabener Press "from" the US Mint. That is definitely an incorrect statement by the HSN folks.

To quote from the Moonlight Mint Web page:

"When the Denver Mint ceased production of commemorative coins in the late 1990s, the press became surplus. It was sold at auction in 2001, and then sat disassembled and collected dust for six years in a warehouse outside Denver. Moonlight Mint acquired it in early 2007 and completed the restoration in December 2008."

 

Yeah, imagine if a counterfeiter bought that press instead of Moonlight Mint. :stormy::heated::desk::bigeyes::crying::veryangry::scratch:

 

Small question. Where does Carr get the dies to do the over strikes? Does he produce them himself?

 

I imagine he makes them since he's not new to coin minting and has minted many coins in the past.

 

He could be opening himself up to a world o' hurt if someones decides to crack down.....

 

Greetings everyone,

Ever since I was a coin collector kid in the 1970s, I day-dreamed about what it would be like to be able to grab a freshly-minted 1964-D Peace Silver Dollar just as it came off the press, just before dropping into the bin. Now I get to live that dream - as close as will ever be possible, anyway. Imagine how much fun it is to be able to have your way with a coin press, some original Peace Dollars (to use as "blanks"), and some "1964" dies. Now I have something I always wanted - my own "1964" Peace Dollar.

I did the 2009-DC "proofed" Silver Eagles because I thought they would be neat. These and the "1964-D" fantasy over-struck coins are certainly not for everyone - only a miniority of collectors would have interest in them. But they started out as legal tender, and technically still are - but I don't in any way endorse their use as such. If you take a dollar bill and stamp "where's George" on it, it is still legal tender. If you attempt to make that dollar bill look like a $100, and then try to pass it as $100, then that is highly illegal. I'm not changing the face value of the host coins. No metal is ever added or removed. And one thing I'm NOT doing, or will ever do, is make something that actually exists. 2009 "proof" Silver Eagles do not exist, and no Silver Eagles ever had a "DC" mint mark. 1964 Peace Dollars do not exist (according to the government) and in the unlikely event that a government-made one ever turned up it would be illegal to own (unlike mine). I could see making "1975" quarters out of some other quarters and selling them as a novelty (because no 1975-dated quarters were ever made). But making a false 1955 doubled die cent or 1922 no-D cent is something I would never do because genuine examples of those exist in the marketplace.

These coins could eventually be sought-after offshoots for some advanced collectors who want something "extra" to add to their sets. And the mintages will be far lower than other coins in the host series. No more than 2,000 of the "1964-D" fantasy over-struck Peace dollars will be made. The lowest mintage Silver Eagle is the 1995-W proof, with about 30,000 minted. The production of the 2009-DC "proofed" Silver Eagles will be less than one-third of that. There are, or course, no guarantees of any kind on future values.

The fact that I use a surplus Denver Mint press, and advanced engraving and minting techniques, separates these from anything issued by Chinese counterfeiters. The Chinese are blatantly counterfeiting legal-tender US coins. They take a piece of junk metal (not even silver) stamp "ONE DOLLAR" on it (as a Morgan or Peace dollar or whatever, with a date and markings the same as original genuine pieces), and then sell them as "replicas". But the "replica" stamp is just a photo-shop trick for eBay listings, and most arrive here in the USA without any "replica" or "copy" stamp. They are so cheaply made that they could manufacture them and spend them for a dollar and still make money (the traditional definition of currency counterfeiting). The Chinese pieces are counterfeits. Mine are genuine, but altered coins. Defacing genuine coins is perfectly legal, so long as it isn't for FRAUDULENT purposes. Mine are being sold with full disclosure as to their true nature.

Here are some pictures.

First, here is a Chinese "1964" Peace Dollar (struck on junk metal - no silver content, "copy" stamp is photo-shop trick - not on actual fake):


Here is my "1964-D" fantasy over-struck Peace dollar (struck on genuine circa 1922-1935 Peace silver dollar - no metal added or removed, just pushed around):



Here is a picture of the 2009-DC "proofed" Silver Eagle (struck over a genuine non-proof US Mint 2009 Silver Eagle that originally had no mint mark):

 

Wow my thread caught the famous legend Daniel Carr's attention I love these coins/ideas sir keep up the great work Im patiently awaiting for the 2010 proof over-struck SAE to fill the holes in my albums thanks again ! (0:

 

Does not apply here since I am taking genuine US Mint coins and modifying them (without fraudulent intentions or actions) - not really different than painting a Silver Eagle and selling it as a novelty. What the Chinese are doing, by making unmarked replicas out of something that wasn't legal-tender to start with, is a violation of this law.

The Hobby Protection Act, which was enacted after this law, specifically allows numismatic replicas to be made. And that implies that "molds or dies" in the likeness of US coins are legal because that is the way replica coins are made (with molds or dies).

Same reply as that for section 485 above.

 

Thanks !
That will depend on whether or not the US Mint makes 2010 Proof Silver Eagles (I won't alter any if they make them).

 

I really like that 64 Peace Dollar! Looking good Daniel and we finally brought you online to say something, maybe just you saying something will spike the sales on the 2009 Proofs!! WTG with the clarification!! :thumb:

 

Daniel, when these start to appear on ebay, and purchased by the unknowing, who show up here with a coin, they think is as you say, a real US coin, and worth unbelievable money....We say what ? Gee, you should have read the literature better, or that darn ebay dealer took advantage of you. I can see some of the logic you use, but will you feel any guilt at possibly producing the means that many newcomers or unsuspecting will be parted with their money by fraudulent middlemen? When the Chinese produce counterfeits and sell to a foreigner whose country doesn't require "Copy", and that person resells it to a "dummy", we feel the main blame is the Counterfeiter, and not as much the middleman.

The idea that everyone is responsible for researching every coin offer before buying is proclaimed, but experience on this forum tells me, that there is a sucker born very frequently. So why do this to the numismatic community? I have enjoyed articles about your mint , and the wonderful products you have produced in the past. I am no stranger to your work and reputation. This is like a respected chemist in numismatics developing a process to produce AT coins that can pass 100%. They can say it is legal, the coin is real, it doesn't have to be identified in any way, but many would hate it and the inventor. I acknowledge your openness in doing this, and your right to make a living, but I feel it is wrong in the long run. IMO.

Jim

 

Mr. Carr:

To say that because you use retired US Mint equipment and advanced engraving and minting techniques and those differences make your products clearly different from the Chinese counterfeits is debatable. My opinion is that while your intent is to create a fantasy piece, they are IMHO to the untrained eye, virtually indistinguishable from the real thing, a credit to the quality of your work I might add. My problem is not with the intent of what you're minting but with what resellers then can and will do with the coins.

The fact that they have been created with an equivalent US coin does not change the fact that they are altered by your dies and IMHO at that point lose their legal tender status. Could you imagine someone trying to spend one of your 64-D Peace dollars and the ensuing controversy that could arise?

Filling a market niche is pure capitalism at it's finest, but when the end product is easily confused with the real, then it needs to be marked more clearly so as not to hide it's true nature.

Respectfully,

mikenoodle

 

The first section of that law has nothing to do with "fraudulent intent" so that's a red herring. So if the Chinese were to come over here and start overstriking genuine 1889 morgan dollars with 1889 CC dies that would be fine because they used a real legal tender dollar?

This isn't the Hobby Protection Act. I will agree though that the two laws are at odds with each other. On e forbids you to make the dies while the other allows it as long as you mark the pieces COPY afterwards. (And the Hobby Protection Act forbids the making of something that looks like a real numismatic item without marking it counterfeit. You overstruck pieces DO look like a genuine numismatic item, a 2009 ASE and a 1964-D Peace dollar. In my opinion they ar in violation of the HPA as well.)

My reply is the same as the previous one as well. The law makes it illegal to make them in the likeness of any US coin You would have to admit you piece LOOKS LIKE a 2009 ASE.