Thread: hogge money

hello. another hogge money question. is this a fake ? and how can you tell ?.
does it hold and value?

Originally Posted by illrooster132

hello. another hogge money question. is this a fake ? and how can you tell ?.
does it hold and value?

I would say it is a fake. The originals were not nearly that crude.

with that said. this is the picture of an original sold for over $100.000.00 .. according to another thread these were hand made.
i dont know anything about coins by the way. but i would like to get as much info to claimed it real or fake.

Undated Shilling - Dickeson copy
Obverse: SOMMER [star] ISLANDS [star] / XII
Reverse: [no text]
Weight: 244.2 g (15.82 grams) Diameter: 32.2 mm Reverse die alignment: 350°
Comments: This is a copper proof copy of the Sommer Islands shilling produced by Montroville Wilson Dickeson of Philadelphia in the 1850's. Examples were produced in copper, brass, nickel and white metal. The images on the obverse and reverse are quite similar to the originals but do not exactly match every detail. This copy is listed in Kenney on p. 12 under Dickeson, no. 1.
The original coins were made of a brassy copper and finished with a thin silver wash. The obverse legend of the originals has stops in place of stars and the first S in ISLANDS is very weak. It is thought the letter was cut backwards and then recut correctly producing a weak strike. Also, originals have a pellet at ground level between the pig's front and back legs. The reverse of the Dickeson copy imitates the "small sail" shilling variety. On originals the ship displays a series of portholes, which Dickeson replaced with canon, one of which has just been fired. Also, in addition to several small changes in the ship's rigging, in originals the pellets below the ship do not appear on extant examples of the small sail shilling; however there are pellets on the large sail shilling, but they appear to be in different groupings than on the copy (originals, which are poorly preserved seem to have a triangle of three pellets followed by a row of three with one beneath and a final row of three or four pellets).
Provenance: Purchased through the Robert H. Gore, Jr. Numismatic Endowment from the EANA auction of January 13, 1996, lot 687


i found this info about some fakes. and the one pictured in the above explanation is the same coin that you posted. it has the same exact markings

Originally Posted by illrooster132

with that said. this is the picture of an original sold for over $100.000.00 .. according to another thread these were hand made.
i dont know anything about coins by the way. but i would to get as much info to claimed real of fake.

Never heard of this coin, Thats why iam here to learn, Thanks
Foe sharing such a interesting piece!

thank you. is a very interesting piece. according to what i read is very rare.
and also seems to be very pricey. reason im trying to get more info is because someone with coin knowleage wanted to get it from me at a cheap price.
claiming it was "fake and was helping me getting rid of it".
thats what got me interested in the real story and price of the coin.
who would pay ove 2k for fake anyway?

I would say yours is a fake. The originals were crude, the one LostDutchman posted is a copy. Do an image search for an original and compare the details on yours to it. You will see the many differences.

Originally Posted by LostDutchman

I would say it is a fake. The originals were not nearly that crude.

some say that the real were not that crude. and you say that they were crude.
the one i have is not perfect is off center. i know nothing . but i see two stories and claims here. i apreciate and enjoy all the info im getting , and this will be my only way to proof if it is fake real.
i love the route this is taking and i thank all the posters and their coments.

Originally Posted by illrooster132

thank you. is a very interesting piece. according to what i read is very rare.
and also seems to be very pricey. reason im trying to get more info is because someone with coin knowleage wanted to get it from me at a cheap price.
claiming it was "fake and was helping me getting rid of it".
thats what got me interested in the real story and price of the coin.
who would pay ove 2k for fake anyway?

Yeah you really have to watch out for coins like this being fake
Where knowledge of them is kind of iffy!!

Sure they were crude, look at the photo of the original that you posted. Do an image search and look at other originals. Take some time and examine the details, the positioning of the letters, the details of the pig and the ground underneath. You will see that yours does not match the original dies.

well i cant seem to find a picture of the real thing

In the picture of the original, the hog is fat with a line of thin bristles on his back. Your hog is on a diet and has extremely matey hair. The ground is also a give away for this being a replica.

Yeah, you guys are correct. The piece I found that I thought was correct was the 1850's restrike. I would contact some of the major auction companies and see if they don't have a reference for the original pieces. They would be the people that are most likely to have seen them.

www.ha.com

or www.bowersandmerena.com

would be a good place to start.

now we are going somewhere.